Silver lining

Dilemma now though as do you accept the 3-0 defeat and play a weakened team in the 2nd leg? Because overturning the 3-0 deficit would require a full strength team and even then is a struggle. If you had just lost 1-0 or such then you could have still kept a few big players on the bench. Feels like all or nothing now and that could influence the title race.

Not to give advice or such but in terms of last night's approach to the game I feel a much better approach and I am not sure if you considered it, was to not be so crap?

comment by Ryan Howley (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
Dilemma now though as do you accept the 3-0 defeat and play a weakened team in the 2nd leg? Because overturning the 3-0 deficit would require a full strength team and even then is a struggle. If you had just lost 1-0 or such then you could have still kept a few big players on the bench. Feels like all or nothing now and that could influence the title race.

Not to give advice or such but in terms of last night's approach to the game I feel a much better approach and I am not sure if you considered it, was to not be so crap?
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We really need to switch it up and I think not being so crap might just work.

I’m still not sure we rested players last night but actually tried something new after abject performances against the Uniteds.

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago

I don't know, we put out a good team, which should be beating any team in the Europa League. The keeper who made a mistake for the first is playing as our first choice is injured. We had a right back in as our first choice is just coming back from injury, who has been in top form this season. The two centre backs are our first choice. We had Tsimikas, who had an awful game in at the expense of Robertson who is just back from injury himself and being kept back for the more important game at the weekend. We had two of our first choice in midfield with Jones in for Szoboszlai who is in poor form. Up front we rested Salah who is also just back from injury and Diaz who has played so much football this season and looked jaded at times.

To summarise we rested Robertson who is just back from injury, Salah who is just back from injury and Diaz who has played a lot of football. The rest picked themselves. If you can't rest three players in a home game in the Europa League for a game on the weekend when going for the league when can you rest them?
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Yeah ok - I did caveat regarding injuries, although I didn't know Szob had been in poor form, so I took him as being another starter rested.

I do disagree with your opening statement, though. Any team from one of the big leagues that makes the quarterfinals of the CL or EL is to be respected, imo. On top of that, Atalanta have had plenty of European experience in recent seasons, and are known to be more than capable of getting results.

Mind that I'm not saying Klopp was wrong to field an under-strength XI bearing in mind the situation in the title race, and nobody would have be making any objections today if things hadn't gone so pear-shaped.

I do think - and I imagine we can both probably agree -that it clearly signals the EL as a lesser concern, which just for clarity's sake I can fully understand.

I'm not saying he ought to have done differently, BUT if you're going to rest a number of your key starters, I'd say it's paramount to make sure that the XI that takes the field is properly motivated and focused. Subbing on 3 theoretical starters at the break was an implicit recognition that things weren't going well, and perhaps the jump in quality would have sufficed against lesser opposition, but it isn't so easy to conjure up a different mindset in mid-game.

Whether it was a case of the game prep not being ideal in terms of tactics or mentality, or that Gasperini simply outmanoeuvred Klopp on the night, it does feel that some of the blame ought to lie with the manager.

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Ryan Howley (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
Dilemma now though as do you accept the 3-0 defeat and play a weakened team in the 2nd leg? Because overturning the 3-0 deficit would require a full strength team and even then is a struggle. If you had just lost 1-0 or such then you could have still kept a few big players on the bench. Feels like all or nothing now and that could influence the title race.

Not to give advice or such but in terms of last night's approach to the game I feel a much better approach and I am not sure if you considered it, was to not be so crap?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We really need to switch it up and I think not being so crap might just work.
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Deffo some powerful thinking from Baz there.

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago

I don't know, we put out a good team, which should be beating any team in the Europa League. The keeper who made a mistake for the first is playing as our first choice is injured. We had a right back in as our first choice is just coming back from injury, who has been in top form this season. The two centre backs are our first choice. We had Tsimikas, who had an awful game in at the expense of Robertson who is just back from injury himself and being kept back for the more important game at the weekend. We had two of our first choice in midfield with Jones in for Szoboszlai who is in poor form. Up front we rested Salah who is also just back from injury and Diaz who has played so much football this season and looked jaded at times.

To summarise we rested Robertson who is just back from injury, Salah who is just back from injury and Diaz who has played a lot of football. The rest picked themselves. If you can't rest three players in a home game in the Europa League for a game on the weekend when going for the league when can you rest them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah ok - I did caveat regarding injuries, although I didn't know Szob had been in poor form, so I took him as being another starter rested.

I do disagree with your opening statement, though. Any team from one of the big leagues that makes the quarterfinals of the CL or EL is to be respected, imo. On top of that, Atalanta have had plenty of European experience in recent seasons, and are known to be more than capable of getting results.

Mind that I'm not saying Klopp was wrong to field an under-strength XI bearing in mind the situation in the title race, and nobody would have be making any objections today if things hadn't gone so pear-shaped.

I do think - and I imagine we can both probably agree -that it clearly signals the EL as a lesser concern, which just for clarity's sake I can fully understand.

I'm not saying he ought to have done differently, BUT if you're going to rest a number of your key starters, I'd say it's paramount to make sure that the XI that takes the field is properly motivated and focused. Subbing on 3 theoretical starters at the break was an implicit recognition that things weren't going well, and perhaps the jump in quality would have sufficed against lesser opposition, but it isn't so easy to conjure up a different mindset in mid-game.

Whether it was a case of the game prep not being ideal in terms of tactics or mentality, or that Gasperini simply outmanoeuvred Klopp on the night, it does feel that some of the blame ought to lie with the manager.
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Well I'm not saying they shouldn't be respected. I'm saying we should be beating any team in the competition with the team we put out.

Also worth noting that we brought on three players that people would deem starters at half time and were probably worse.

The lineup wasn't the issue. The performance was shocking and it would be difficult to make a case for a single player playing well. I actually thought Elliott was our best player in the first half and he got brought off to get Salah on second half.

I also do think anybody tactically outmaneuvered anybody. They didn't do anything specially tactically and we played our normal game. The players were simply poor. We left massive gaps at the back and wasted a host of chances. You do that against anybody and you're going to struggle as we did against United and then last night.

Far be it for me to give you anything positive but:

You have one trophy in the bag already

Are well in the PL mix. Same points as the leaders FFS!

Are more than capable of turning Atalanta over 3-0. Had LIverpool played the first leg in Italy and won 3-0 no one would have been surprised would they?

Teams simply have bad results/spells. It happens. Even City have them.

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
Also worth noting that we brought on three players that people would deem starters at half time and were probably worse.

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I take all your points. Didn't watch the match, so I'm not in a position to judge either. Regarding the bit I quoted in the reply though regarding the substitutions, it can be complicated to change a mindset when the players aren't really up for it to begin with. This kind of situation isn't all that uncommon in the EL.

About being a team that should beat any EL oppo, I would say 'could' rather than 'should', but the more you weaken your team, the less chances you have. That much goes without saying really.

I don't know how things stand right now, but a few seasons ago I remember looking at the split of teams that had won the EL after dropping down from the CL versus teams that had been in the EL from the start, and it was pretty even - iirc, slightly tilted towards the ones who'd been in the EL from the get-go. Bar in mind that most of the big-league sides that make it to this stage have qualified through their own leagues, which generally means positions around 4-7 or 5-7. In much the same way you wouldn't take for granted a win against a top-half PL side if you make 3 or 4 changes, you shouldn't be doing it in the EL. My opinion anyway.