Tuchel

Ole won the Norwegian League didn't he? Big deal.

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No one said it was a big deal. You are making up scenarios in your warped brain.

That said, winning the league for a club that had never won anything of note in its entire history deserves a bit of respect.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 42 minutes ago
Should we go for every Celtic manager too then? They always win that league too? Of course we should'nt.

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No one has said we should, so that was a silly and very childish comment.
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Actually in this case going for ange of Celtic might not have been a bad idea, given he’s done quite well with spurs

Not stating that he deserves to stay next season but haven't the youth teams gone through a bit of a restructure and that's something that Ten Hag is invested in?

Perhaps he is trying to build it from the ground and that we'll reap the benefits after he's gone.

I know it's different times but SAF had a pretty good first full season but struggled the next two. However, there were things going on within the club to help future success.

That's not to state Ten Hag shouldn't do better with the first team because he absolutely should.

comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 (U2462)
posted 15 minutes ago
Not stating that he deserves to stay next season but haven't the youth teams gone through a bit of a restructure and that's something that Ten Hag is invested in?

Perhaps he is trying to build it from the ground and that we'll reap the benefits after he's gone.

I know it's different times but SAF had a pretty good first full season but struggled the next two. However, there were things going on within the club to help future success.

That's not to state Ten Hag shouldn't do better with the first team because he absolutely should.
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If Fergie's time had been today, he probably would have been sacked before the FA Cup win. Fergie was also more involved in trying to change the whole club around - I'm sure more is expected of ETH on the pitch, and he's just not doing it.

would be a massive upgrade on what you have but also another short term solution

comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 (U2462)
posted 15 minutes ago
Not stating that he deserves to stay next season but haven't the youth teams gone through a bit of a restructure and that's something that Ten Hag is invested in?

Perhaps he is trying to build it from the ground and that we'll reap the benefits after he's gone.

I know it's different times but SAF had a pretty good first full season but struggled the next two. However, there were things going on within the club to help future success.

That's not to state Ten Hag shouldn't do better with the first team because he absolutely should.
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If Fergie's time had been today, he probably would have been sacked before the FA Cup win. Fergie was also more involved in trying to change the whole club around - I'm sure more is expected of ETH on the pitch, and he's just not doing it.
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I do agree with you. I'm just pondering why the club may decide to keep ETH if they decide to.

comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 (U2462)
posted 43 minutes ago
Not stating that he deserves to stay next season but haven't the youth teams gone through a bit of a restructure and that's something that Ten Hag is invested in?

Perhaps he is trying to build it from the ground and that we'll reap the benefits after he's gone.

I know it's different times but SAF had a pretty good first full season but struggled the next two. However, there were things going on within the club to help future success.

That's not to state Ten Hag shouldn't do better with the first team because he absolutely should.
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Regardless of who the manager is, this is something that will need to happen from the top. It’s going to need patience to undo over a decade of neglect. But it’s going to need a manager, players and support staff that are all pulling in the right direction.

Which then begs the question, is ETH going to pull in that direction? And will his replacement?

I think Tuchel is the kind of coach that would get this team performing better in the short term than any coach available, but will he have the patience to go through with the work that is actually needed, and that transfer policy the club may end up employing to achieve that?

Daz, that's a good way of framing it. A bit like when ETH took charge, there's a dilemma for the club to face around the balance between short-term success and long-term renovation. It's tempting advocate swallowing short term pain in order to set down the foundations that help us build an elite club sooner. But I suspect that there's scope for a certain amount of pragmatism without making the mistakes of Woodward-style short-termism. It's possible that doing things that make the club more competitive in the short term bring the money and confidence that help accelerate the transition, recruit the players we'll need sooner, etc - even if it doesn't involve switching immediately to the football we aspire to play in the future.

I have no idea where the sweet spot is on this scale, just as I didn't when applying the same question to whether ETH should be more pragmatic or idealistic in terms of the football he played last season. But the club hierarchy needs to have a clear sense of where they land on this scale, as it informs recruitment decisions, head coach choice, pretty much everything.

RR, agree with that. I think Chelsea are a cursory tale, and much has been made of Tuchel not aligning with their goals for the club. We need to be careful not to neglect the short term too much otherwise we’ll fall into a bad cycle that will make things difficult to recover from.

I know people like to use Arteta as an example, but the one thing that people fail to consider is that covid saved his job by keeping the fans out of the stadium. I don’t think there’s anyway he’d have survived had the fans been allowed in as they wanted his head on a spike back then.

Daz