No one can deny that this has been a pretty miserable season. Not only in terms of results but in terms of the progression, or rather the lack of it, in the teams's style and performances. It all adds up to me probably thinking it's for the best if we get a new manager in.
However, just for balance, I'm going to look at it from another POV and see what case there is for Ten Hag to stay. This is the case for IMO (in no particular order):
- he's been very unlucky with injuries. With a decent bill of health last season he showed that he could manage to a high level in the PL
- he's had a lot of off field issues to deal with
- he's been working under the Glazers and the incompetent people they have running the club
- there's no immediate and obvious candidate to replace him
- over the two seasons he's been at the club only two managers have really outperformed him
- he's blooded a few young players and a handful of those could be very valuable squad members/first XI players for the next decade.
- the youth teams are looking good and it's something he has an interest and input in apparently
- sacking him would send a message to the players that it's the manager that's first to go. Perhaps Ineos will want to break that cycle by keeping the manager and removing one or two players instead?
- he's shown he can be strong with big players and players on big money. Perhaps the club will want to back that kind of approach?
That list isn't exhaustive and, looking at it, it does seem that it's the negative reasons that take you towards possibly thinking he should stay. Not many positives! Not great really!
I don't want this thread to be reasons for firing Ten Hag. We've covered that ground before. Let's have your reasons which may convince the club to keep him.
Making a case for Ten Hag
posted 2 weeks, 5 days ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Clever - son son son - 'Ten Haaaagendas please'of the year Runner Up 2021 (U18599)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
Keeping Ten Hag on also gives Ineos their get out if things don't go too smoothly to begin with.
If they did hire their own man this Summer, and he starts badly, then there's nowhere really for them to hide. By keeping Ten Hag they can show a 'clean slate' attitude and they won't have to sack two managers in quick succession.
I think it is clear from these comments though that most reasons to keep Ten Hag are not from positives from his side.
We could well see what some may consider 'underwhelming' signings this Summer but I honestly think the most important thing is that they fit the profile of how we want to play. We could really do with players who can come in and not have to change the game plan to accommodate their lack of pace/athleticism etc.
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Kinda ties in with my sacrificial lamb point. If they’re expecting a rocky first season, regardless of manager, they may well want ETH to be the man to take that on.
Say what you like about what he’s done with this team on the pitch, I think he’s handled himself with class and dignity, despite all the ridiculous challenges on and off the pitch that he’s had to face. Another manager, not naming names, would have thrown all their toys out of the pram and all their players under the bus.
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Sounds like your talking about United's bestest fan SE85. No doubt SAF would have been called a haaagis cant and all sorts by United's best fan during the tough years.
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I said I’m not naming names. Then named that person right underneath, pay attention.
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My bad
posted 2 weeks, 5 days ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 23 minutes ago
Yew, I've mentioned it a few times on here too recently. The perfect storm that's given him a bad hand may well also save him.
I really do want him to succeed though. I get the impression he does really respect the club and the discipline needed to be a top club. Its just annoying that he has a blind spot to how we set up. Then again we used to say over a decade ago SAF had a blind spot for midfield too!
———
I don’t really care if we sack him as long as we’re doing the right work on culling the squad. My worry is we sack him, see an upturn in form from some of the players dragging the club down and they con the new management into thinking they’ve got a future at the club, only to revert to type the following season.
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Yes, that's why I want us to break the cycle. It's not player power like we saw at Chelsea but there is an element of it there IMO.
Surely it shouldn't be too difficult for a club with resources like United to have a squad out on the pitch that looks better than most in the PL. Such is our fall recently I'd accept being flat track bullies for now! Sadly though, we don't even do that!
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I’d argue it’s even bigger than at Chelsea. This lot have almost had the whole club over a barrel. It’s not like Chelsea’s players could do that to a Russian gangster. And they were just much, much better footballers, so fans could at least forgive it as they were incredibly successful.
posted 2 weeks, 5 days ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 23 minutes ago
Yew, I've mentioned it a few times on here too recently. The perfect storm that's given him a bad hand may well also save him.
I really do want him to succeed though. I get the impression he does really respect the club and the discipline needed to be a top club. Its just annoying that he has a blind spot to how we set up. Then again we used to say over a decade ago SAF had a blind spot for midfield too!
———
I don’t really care if we sack him as long as we’re doing the right work on culling the squad. My worry is we sack him, see an upturn in form from some of the players dragging the club down and they con the new management into thinking they’ve got a future at the club, only to revert to type the following season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, that's why I want us to break the cycle. It's not player power like we saw at Chelsea but there is an element of it there IMO.
Surely it shouldn't be too difficult for a club with resources like United to have a squad out on the pitch that looks better than most in the PL. Such is our fall recently I'd accept being flat track bullies for now! Sadly though, we don't even do that!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d argue it’s even bigger than at Chelsea. This lot have almost had the whole club over a barrel. It’s not like Chelsea’s players could do that to a Russian gangster. And they were just much, much better footballers, so fans could at least forgive it as they were incredibly successful.
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They were certainly better but I do think that Roman liked the senior players so they held a lot of power there over managers. I can well imagine Lampard, Drogba and Terry going to him, or his staff, moaning about a manager.
Related to Roman one of my best friends had an uncle in the security business and he was Roman's head of security. My mate, a Spurs fan, got to watch his team beat Chelsea in the 2008 League Cup final from a private box. His sister also worked for a while on Roman's yachts. Riches beyond your wildest dreams apparently!
posted 2 weeks, 4 days ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 5 hours, 16 minutes ago
I get the feeling if he was a goner we would already know. I to and fro on this but maybe let him have the last year of his contract.
I’m sure plenty of Arsenal fans would have gotten rid of Arteta longer into his Arsenal career than ETH is with United and now they are in their 2nd consecutive title challenge.
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Arteta is a good example I think. I didn’t watch them every week so he may have at least got some identity and/or style of play which ETH currently hasn’t but Arteta was definitely on the chopping block for a lot of Arsenal fans at first and he’s turned them right around.
Very few managers (United hierarchy mess or not) are able to come in and deliver within two seasons. I’ve said before that last season was not only an overachievement but consequently a hindrance because we all expected too much this season. So many of our players are either not good enough and/or have the wrong attitude (ignoring his signings). Arsenal stuck with Arteta. I’ll ignore Pep because he joined City with cash to spend and an already successful team but Klopp in fairness consistently improved Liverpool into what they became (and even then it took time to win titles) but other than him I cannot name too many other managers that improved a big team consistently from the start, certainly not in the prem.
posted 2 weeks, 4 days ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 3 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 23 minutes ago
Yew, I've mentioned it a few times on here too recently. The perfect storm that's given him a bad hand may well also save him.
I really do want him to succeed though. I get the impression he does really respect the club and the discipline needed to be a top club. Its just annoying that he has a blind spot to how we set up. Then again we used to say over a decade ago SAF had a blind spot for midfield too!
———
I don’t really care if we sack him as long as we’re doing the right work on culling the squad. My worry is we sack him, see an upturn in form from some of the players dragging the club down and they con the new management into thinking they’ve got a future at the club, only to revert to type the following season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, that's why I want us to break the cycle. It's not player power like we saw at Chelsea but there is an element of it there IMO.
Surely it shouldn't be too difficult for a club with resources like United to have a squad out on the pitch that looks better than most in the PL. Such is our fall recently I'd accept being flat track bullies for now! Sadly though, we don't even do that!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d argue it’s even bigger than at Chelsea. This lot have almost had the whole club over a barrel. It’s not like Chelsea’s players could do that to a Russian gangster. And they were just much, much better footballers, so fans could at least forgive it as they were incredibly successful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They were certainly better but I do think that Roman liked the senior players so they held a lot of power there over managers. I can well imagine Lampard, Drogba and Terry going to him, or his staff, moaning about a manager.
Related to Roman one of my best friends had an uncle in the security business and he was Roman's head of security. My mate, a Spurs fan, got to watch his team beat Chelsea in the 2008 League Cup final from a private box. His sister also worked for a while on Roman's yachts. Riches beyond your wildest dreams apparently!
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They definitely did have player power over certain managers, Benitez was a great example. But as mentioned, they had the success to back it up. Our entire squad now (maybe other than Johnny Evans lol) have won pretty much fk all. But they have a similar attitude because what? They’re at United? Not enough, nowhere near enough. Look at our recent greats’ attitude despite winning so much: Keano, Giggsy, Scholesy, Rooney, Rio, Edwin and so on. They won more than practically any group of players and still wanted more of the same. So many of this lot we have now act like they’re treble winners with nothing to prove and big contracts…when they’ve just got big contracts really.
posted 2 weeks, 4 days ago
I think with the recruitment at the club and the youth team we've been set up to fail for 10 years. Maybe that's going to change soon.
I think for the last 10 years the youth team have been coached to play as if we're still playing SAF style football in a counter attacking way.
You see this in Rashford, McTominay, Garnacho and the way they play. No closing down the opposition, but run really fast and direct when on the ball. Tactically not very good when they don't have the ball however.
So we've had youth players coming through who are still playing football 10 years behind. This is a first stumbling block for any manager, whether it's LvG, Jose, Ole, ETH or whoever comes in next.
Maybe this is beginning to change with Mainoo and the next gen of United youth players however.
Then you've got recruitment. For 10 years we've had Woodward signing players that don't really want to be here but are loving the pay check. See Di Maria & C.Ronaldo. with the turn over of managers every few years each manager inherits a group of players that are not suited to the new managers tactics and systems.
Bring in another manager and that manager has to start again, group of players he doesn't want. Players still lingering on stupid paychecks that aren't fussed about putting a shift in. Bring in De Zerbi, bring in anyone and it's going to be the same thing as the last 10 years.
What's that saying about insanity and doing the same thing?
Personally I'm not fussed about if he stays or goes, I just want to see that the leadership is being restructured from the directors and all that stuff first.
I'd be sad if ETH goes because I'll feel like we've treated him badly, like we did LvG.
I understand it's top 4 or get out, but at the moment it's an impossible job for a manager. Ralf Rangnick must know things we don't for him to say we need open heart surgery.
If it were up to me I would keep ETH for his final year, give him less say on transfers (he'd still have some) and have Berrada etc have more say on transfers
posted 2 weeks, 4 days ago
If it were up to me I would keep ETH for his final year, give him less say on transfers (he'd still have some) and have Berrada etc have more say on transfers
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INEOS need to end the damaging speculation IF they want to keep ETH and put him on a new long term contract now.
Otherwise get rid after the Cup Final and appoint a new long term manager this summer. The last thing United need is yet another temporary, dead duck manager holding the fort just for one more season. The players United buy and sell this summer have to fit the whole long term set-up including the current or new preferred, manager/trainer.
posted 2 weeks, 4 days ago
I think for the last 10 years the youth team have been coached to play as if we're still playing SAF style football in a counter attacking way.
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That's just incorrect.
posted 2 weeks, 4 days ago
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 19 seconds ago
I think for the last 10 years the youth team have been coached to play as if we're still playing SAF style football in a counter attacking way.
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That's just incorrect.
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I'm just going by what I see from the youth players stepping up into the first team.
Rashford has been for the last 8 years or so now our star player who has come through the academy. He's often dangerous going forward and is very direct, but when he's not on the ball he's strolling around. Obviously McTominay has a different function in the team but there's similarities.
Mainoo is totally different which is a promising sign
posted 2 weeks, 4 days ago
You shouldn't judge how one team plays from another just from how individual players perform for the first team.
It has often been the case over recent years that the U18s in particular have been much more possession based, dominant and pleasing on the eye than the first team.
Roles of players and tactics have differed wildly from level to level at United.