Manchester United Football Club, where the cycle never ends.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/may/07/erik-ten-hags-exit-may-be-inevitable-but-when-will-the-united-cycle-stop
And yes I've voiced my opinions on this before. If Ineos had not come in and we were on the verge of hiring a new manager this June things would not change
https://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/458390
https://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/458503
https://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/457207
https://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/447135
The usual cycle of most calling for so and so to go. I learnt my lesson after Jose. I called for LvG and Jose out by the end of their tenures. But you know what? After three managerial sacking and nothing changing I learnt my lesson. It ain't the managers, it's the useless leadership above them. With hindsight I was wrong to call out LvG.
All of these managers, and none of them are good enough to make us at least competitive, really? You really believe that?
ETH? I'll feel sad if he gets the boot. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Until Ineos sort the rot out we can bring in Pep & Ancelotti to team up and we'd still finish 6th.
As I realised what happens when we simply sack the manager after a bad 12 months and change nothing else at the club, it's made me think maybe we should try sacking someone else instead
The Cycle of United
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by House (U17162)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 40 minutes ago
How exactly are the 'useless leadership above them' responsible for our tactics, formation, on pitch performance, fitness, injuries?
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Because they're a part of the football club
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Yes, but I don't believe we can hold them responsible for the players and managers poor performance.
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By the third manager sacking ive come to believe that yes they can.
I didn't always think this way, but after so many times of the same thing happening there must be more to it than just chopping and changing the manager to fix everything.
And so this is why im a bit baffled by so many just shouting for the managers sacking and nobody else at the club
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
comment by House (U17162)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by House (U17162)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 40 minutes ago
How exactly are the 'useless leadership above them' responsible for our tactics, formation, on pitch performance, fitness, injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because they're a part of the football club
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but I don't believe we can hold them responsible for the players and managers poor performance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By the third manager sacking ive come to believe that yes they can.
I didn't always think this way, but after so many times of the same thing happening there must be more to it than just chopping and changing the manager to fix everything.
And so this is why im a bit baffled by so many just shouting for the managers sacking and nobody else at the club
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How though, do you thinki they influence performance of the squad and manager?
And who is it you want sacked? Arnold amd Mirtough have gone. Fletcher has been re assigned.
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
And so this is why im a bit baffled by so many just shouting for the managers sacking and nobody else at the club
++++
I think most of us United supporters have been shouting that everybody useless in charge of something at Man United under the Glazers should have been sacked years ago and replaced by appropriate and best-in-class appointments. Finally Jim has already started the process. And it wont/shouldnt stop at also including replacing the useless and dead wood in the football, playing/management/coaching/medical, etc. etc. staff.
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
It's not out of the question that ETH leaves and goes on to be a success elsewhere, but based on what, exactly?
There's no empirical evidence across the last two years to suggest so - he hasn't had great recruitment (of which he's had a significant degree of autonomy over); his man management/discipline has been brought into question more times than I can recall any manager at any club over such a short tenure (Ronnie, Sancho, Varane, Rashy, Garnacho); his in-game management is absolutely abysmal and, for me, that's his most unforgiveable shortcoming; his style is non-existent; his formation and positional philosophy is the worst I've ever seen in the EPL, as is evident by our goals & shots conceded; etc.
So, I would just love to know on what basis he's going to leave and be a success elsewhere? Other than contrarianism or underlying insecurity (like leaving a girlfriend and being worried she's suddenly going to smash the gym and get that Mackenzie Dern body)
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I’m basing it on the historical evidence of him winning titles and reaching cup finals on a regular basis with his previous club (and also our club this season and last). That’s the definition of success in football is it not? I understand the performances. But I feel that has been the case post Ferguson for all our managers, and is generally linked to our quality of players.
Also, I take into account the historical evidence of United teams and players underperforming with impressive levels of consistency and regularly since 2014, leading to the manager being sacked, and the same cycle starting again.
Maybe someone should suggest something crazy like, I don’t know, something different to that? Because it hasn’t bought us any success realistically compared to the investments by the club in players whatsoever.
At some point people have to realise the issues translating to the pitch are greater than just one man being the fall guy constantly, only to wheel in the next patsy?
I stand by my prediction that if we fire him, he will win trophies at another CL club.
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
comment by Keanos Magic Hat (U10101)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
It's not out of the question that ETH leaves and goes on to be a success elsewhere, but based on what, exactly?
There's no empirical evidence across the last two years to suggest so - he hasn't had great recruitment (of which he's had a significant degree of autonomy over); his man management/discipline has been brought into question more times than I can recall any manager at any club over such a short tenure (Ronnie, Sancho, Varane, Rashy, Garnacho); his in-game management is absolutely abysmal and, for me, that's his most unforgiveable shortcoming; his style is non-existent; his formation and positional philosophy is the worst I've ever seen in the EPL, as is evident by our goals & shots conceded; etc.
So, I would just love to know on what basis he's going to leave and be a success elsewhere? Other than contrarianism or underlying insecurity (like leaving a girlfriend and being worried she's suddenly going to smash the gym and get that Mackenzie Dern body)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m basing it on the historical evidence of him winning titles and reaching cup finals on a regular basis with his previous club (and also our club this season and last). That’s the definition of success in football is it not? I understand the performances. But I feel that has been the case post Ferguson for all our managers, and is generally linked to our quality of players.
Also, I take into account the historical evidence of United teams and players underperforming with impressive levels of consistency and regularly since 2014, leading to the manager being sacked, and the same cycle starting again.
Maybe someone should suggest something crazy like, I don’t know, something different to that? Because it hasn’t bought us any success realistically compared to the investments by the club in players whatsoever.
At some point people have to realise the issues translating to the pitch are greater than just one man being the fall guy constantly, only to wheel in the next patsy?
I stand by my prediction that if we fire him, he will win trophies at another CL club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He .ight that doesn't mean he was right for United, or that its not the players that are faiing him, rather than the football execs.
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
If he does leave United Im not bothered if he does or doesnt do well elsewhere. Like the fact that he did well at Ajax, which is why United were interested in the first place. Whilst you might be right about a rosy future for Erik its just a prediction. Like employing him cos he won stuff at Ajax didnt mean it would happen at United. Maybe both senarios prove that managing in the PL and specifically United is a different kettle of fish than managing at Ajax and wherever he ends up.
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
comment by Keanos Magic Hat (U10101)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
It's not out of the question that ETH leaves and goes on to be a success elsewhere, but based on what, exactly?
There's no empirical evidence across the last two years to suggest so - he hasn't had great recruitment (of which he's had a significant degree of autonomy over); his man management/discipline has been brought into question more times than I can recall any manager at any club over such a short tenure (Ronnie, Sancho, Varane, Rashy, Garnacho); his in-game management is absolutely abysmal and, for me, that's his most unforgiveable shortcoming; his style is non-existent; his formation and positional philosophy is the worst I've ever seen in the EPL, as is evident by our goals & shots conceded; etc.
So, I would just love to know on what basis he's going to leave and be a success elsewhere? Other than contrarianism or underlying insecurity (like leaving a girlfriend and being worried she's suddenly going to smash the gym and get that Mackenzie Dern body)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m basing it on the historical evidence of him winning titles and reaching cup finals on a regular basis with his previous club (and also our club this season and last). That’s the definition of success in football is it not? I understand the performances. But I feel that has been the case post Ferguson for all our managers, and is generally linked to our quality of players.
Also, I take into account the historical evidence of United teams and players underperforming with impressive levels of consistency and regularly since 2014, leading to the manager being sacked, and the same cycle starting again.
Maybe someone should suggest something crazy like, I don’t know, something different to that? Because it hasn’t bought us any success realistically compared to the investments by the club in players whatsoever.
At some point people have to realise the issues translating to the pitch are greater than just one man being the fall guy constantly, only to wheel in the next patsy?
I stand by my prediction that if we fire him, he will win trophies at another CL club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the last two years" conveniently missed.
Okay, let me rephrase: you can point to myriad excuses other than ETH as to why things aren't going well - and a lot of them hold substance - but it isn't mutually exclusive that those negative factors exist AND he's a sub-standard manager; I would argue there's a lot of evidence of failing standards that can ONLY be the fault of the coaching staff.
Can you actually tell me what ETH is CL-level quality at? Rather than providing excuses for his shortcomings, tell me some of his qualities that are evident today and exceed that of his peers?
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Keanos Magic Hat (U10101)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
It's not out of the question that ETH leaves and goes on to be a success elsewhere, but based on what, exactly?
There's no empirical evidence across the last two years to suggest so - he hasn't had great recruitment (of which he's had a significant degree of autonomy over); his man management/discipline has been brought into question more times than I can recall any manager at any club over such a short tenure (Ronnie, Sancho, Varane, Rashy, Garnacho); his in-game management is absolutely abysmal and, for me, that's his most unforgiveable shortcoming; his style is non-existent; his formation and positional philosophy is the worst I've ever seen in the EPL, as is evident by our goals & shots conceded; etc.
So, I would just love to know on what basis he's going to leave and be a success elsewhere? Other than contrarianism or underlying insecurity (like leaving a girlfriend and being worried she's suddenly going to smash the gym and get that Mackenzie Dern body)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m basing it on the historical evidence of him winning titles and reaching cup finals on a regular basis with his previous club (and also our club this season and last). That’s the definition of success in football is it not? I understand the performances. But I feel that has been the case post Ferguson for all our managers, and is generally linked to our quality of players.
Also, I take into account the historical evidence of United teams and players underperforming with impressive levels of consistency and regularly since 2014, leading to the manager being sacked, and the same cycle starting again.
Maybe someone should suggest something crazy like, I don’t know, something different to that? Because it hasn’t bought us any success realistically compared to the investments by the club in players whatsoever.
At some point people have to realise the issues translating to the pitch are greater than just one man being the fall guy constantly, only to wheel in the next patsy?
I stand by my prediction that if we fire him, he will win trophies at another CL club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the last two years" conveniently missed.
Okay, let me rephrase: you can point to myriad excuses other than ETH as to why things aren't going well - and a lot of them hold substance - but it isn't mutually exclusive that those negative factors exist AND he's a sub-standard manager; I would argue there's a lot of evidence of failing standards that can ONLY be the fault of the coaching staff.
Can you actually tell me what ETH is CL-level quality at? Rather than providing excuses for his shortcomings, tell me some of his qualities that are evident today and exceed that of his peers?
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Last two years not missed, read my comment. He won a League cup and got to an FA cup final last season whilst qualifying for the CL. This year, an FA cup final, yes everything else has been disastrous, but I can also see how many injuries we have been decimated by, and other factors to do with the squad he inherited which existed before he was appointed.
What is he CL quality at? You can’t be serious? After losing the Europa league final to United, he then won the erdivisie the next season, got to the CL semi final (knocking out Juventus and the holders Real Madrid) and lost out on getting to the final by a last minute winner from Tottenham. This is Ajax remember, not a big budget club. To compare United imploded the next season (after outspending Ajax considerably) and fired Mourinho (is he a useless manager too in your opinion?).
Not being an ETH fan boy, but I can see he’s a good manager, and the injuries we have incurred have disproportionately affected this season. A lot of fans are too quick to write off managers is all I’m trying to say without looking at it logically.
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
You haven't answered the question: what aspect of management is ETH CL quality at? What does he surpass his peers at?
There has been a deluge of evidence that his man management is poor, that his recruitment/talent appraisal is poor, that his in-game management is poor, and that his positional/formational coaching is poor.
Give me anything he's good at?
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 11 minutes ago
You haven't answered the question: what aspect of management is ETH CL quality at? What does he surpass his peers at?
There has been a deluge of evidence that his man management is poor, that his recruitment/talent appraisal is poor, that his in-game management is poor, and that his positional/formational coaching is poor.
Give me anything he's good at?
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Literally none.