Well done Connacht

I have to admit I'm not at all surprised by this result, Connacht have never been an easy team at home,

As a Welsh supporter I've often watched what I thought should be good, strong Ospreys/Blues/Scarlets team get dicked on by a hardened Connacht outfit. (As much as I love the Dragons, I could never be confident of them beating Connacht - home or away.) In the last few years they've just about added every team in the MagnersRabo League to their list of scalps (correct me if I'm wrong and theres some team they haven't beaten!).

I have a lot of respect for Connacht. Especially at home. A sense of impending doom would be overdramatizing what I thought was coming, but still, I was more than half expecting an 'upset'.

I wish I'd seen tonight's game. Had beef wellington with the missus tonight whilst the rugby was on; it was good but wish she'd have let me watch the telly instead of chop the veg and whatnot. Hope I can catch the highlights on rugbydump.

Have to agree with you gecko. not surprised in the slightest by Connacht's win, they should have beaten Quins and Gloucester away from home in the competition but they just couldn't manage it. They were due a big performance and a bit of luck.

Think you were a bit harsh towards the Dragons. They play really good rugby at times, you only have to ask an Ospreys supporter how they got on down Rodney Parade to see how good they can be.

Some fair points brought up by DingBatMan, here's my view on them.

1. I can see your point on this one DingBatMan, if we all got behind the team and filled the stadium it would be incredible. However unlike in Ireland, the Ospreys and Blues have to compete with the city's football teams. I just think that the location and the lack of atmosphere in the new stadium is putting more people off, attendances are less than they were at the Cardiff Arms Park. Even if one of the regions were playing exceptional rugby, they can't expect to get 25,000 attendances week in week out.

2. The quality of the English teams is falling. Coaches blame the salary cap but they have similar finances to the Welsh and Irish regions. We're looking at possibly 5 magners league teams in the QF's compared to 1 from the aviva. This shows that the quality of teams is far greater in the magners league. I think English teams need to start putting more faith in youth to progress.

3. I don't quite think Saracens play a complete brand of rugby, they play good rugby but rely on dominant forwards. They don't have an incredible backline, but there job is made easier by the forwards. I just think that the AP teams are unable to play a varied approach. Quins seemed lost last night when the weather and a tough Connacht defense took away their running game, they didn't seem confident in playing a forwards game.

4. Agree with you that it all comes down to funding unfortunately. I think that the support is there and they deserve the opportunity to progress. To be fair to them they have brought through a lot of youngsters over the years.

5. DK needs to blood these players. It's no use in saying their not good enough until their 30, it's too late then!!

Hi there

From the English point of view I was delighted with Gloucester and also a little sad, they came so close to wins against Harlequins that would have put them through, that a huge win is slightly tainted with sadness. I was disappointed with Harlequins, who I think could and should have beaten Connacht, for me the deciding factor was the weather - see Evans conversion attempt and the Connacht penalty just before half time for example. Simply, Connacht were used to the weather and Harlequins failed to adjust.



1. Do the Welsh regions need to go back to their old grounds (YES!!!)
From the heart I would love to see the Welsh regions dissolved and return to Pontypridd, Pontypool etc. For me these sides have an odd sort of romanticism to them, the very names are to me synonymous what what rugby should be, the local man connected to his local team. I can't quite put it in words, but there's a thrill in hearing those names whilst "Scarlets, Dragons and Ospreys" sounds like pretentious c-r-a-p and Blues sounds like a blatant - we couldn't be a-r-s-e-d to think of anything else

2. Is the gulf between the Magners League and Aviva Premiership too big?
Between the top sides yes, but there's a hell of a lot of rubbish in the Magners too - see Q 3 as well

3. Why do the top English teams become so one dimensional in Europe?
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Rugby in England is in a difficult and uncertain space caught between two worlds of history and tradition - especially looking at the near-destruction of traditional rugby in Wales and Scotland and the new world of money - France and Ireland.

Ultimately we need to decide where we go and quickly, English clubs are having to play too many games and have too little money, as a result players are becoming tired and injured, overstretching small budgets and resulting in second rate performances both on a club and country level.

4. Can Connacht use this as a springboard to move on to bigger and better things?
Possibly, but I personally can't see it happening, I think they are likely to remain also rans and their place is the Amlin Challenge Cup - which I actaully rather like (as you amy have guessed from my answer to Q1)


5. Why doesn't Declan Kidney pick some of these youngsters who have looked so impressive?
I guess its a case of trying to gradually phase them in, rather than give them psychological shock therapy - I tend to agree with this, though I know others wouldn't

Finally, good to see some Welsh voices on hear, just need some Scots, French and Italians too

Hey SARS Very astute points made in all and tho i don't necessarily agree with your points, i find it difficult to argue with them.

Of course there is one point that u got badly wrong.
"3. Why do the top English teams become so one dimensional in Europe?
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Rugby in England is in a difficult and uncertain space caught between two worlds of history and tradition - especially looking at the near-destruction of traditional rugby in Wales and Scotland and the new world of money - France and Ireland."

The new world of money in ireland is wrong, its a myth and always has been. Its a myth created by the fact the IRFU don't divulge how much each province gets but its not hard to work it out either. Let me explain.

All funds flow to the teams through the IRFU and Clearly Munster and Leinster get the lions share, with Ulster spending big also BUT all the provinces get their cash from the men in the IRFU and the IRFU generated a provincial Budget last year of 12million euro. thats 12 which has to be split between the 4 provinces and the national team.

Admittedly The provinces are allowed to generate extra income from marketing and so forth but that is also limited.

So in point of fact we may not know what each province gets but we can make a reasonable assumption that leinster and munster are operating on about 5 to 6 million a year and thats making a pretty large assumption on their marketing potential within a country having only 3.5 million people and probably only a tiny percent of them willing to buy anything the teams are selling.

There is a distinct possibility that Leinster and Munster are operation on less then the top english clubs. certainly we are not even in the same galaxy as the french.

I dont think its about budget in england, i think its about the fact the IRB and the Clubs are not with each other but are dead against each other. Club manager moan about the timing of the 6 nations tho its been that way for a 100 years. Club managers moan that their players are being called up for international duties, club managers moan they dont have enough money to bring in foreign talent to keep the club going when their internationals are away.

Ireland on the other hand have club manager who moan when there players are not picked for international duty.
RE: http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/77312

And thats because the IRFU control the clubs here. They pay the wages, and they reward Clubs for supplying the national team with talent.... Its a shame DK is afraid of trying any of them tho.

That is very, very interesting. Where does the money that the IRFU control come from - is it gate receipts, etc - I guess if Leinster and Munster contribute the most then its only fair that they also receive the most, though that would seem to set the relative positions of the provinces in stone for ever - and I would have thought especially Ulster and to a lesser degree Connacht would be unhappy.

It also clarifies and to some extent justifies the IRFU's decisions as to foreign players - though to some degree I don't like that in that I would always want a coach to decide his team regardless of outside suggestion or influence.

Do you know what the breakdown of the IRFU sources of income is - or could you hazard a guess at it?

Its a very interesting business model, and it seems to be successful, though I don't like it as an economic principle - not free market economics and all that - though having worked in the same building as Anglo-Irish Bank I know there aren't many that would approve of that theory anyway

Apologies if that was long winded and / or rambling, as I said thats a very interesting point you made and I'm glad you clarified it

I cant say i know what it is, as i said they dont divulge, but last year there was talk from a young minister in the government of making all Irish Spots Free to air on TV as part of the constitution that all irish people should be able to see there representative teams playing.

Very marxist indeed.... anyway the IRFU fired a warning shot across the bow of that guy and revealed their operating budged for that year, and said if the free to air plan went ahead they would lose upto 4million in TV coverage some deal they have with the french and italians, and i guess outside of Europe? . I cant say how it works to be honest but thats what they were saying. as an aside it gave us quick peek at the internals of the IRFU and how they do business.

Now that said, this whole free to air debate sparked other questions and certainly there were many who questioned the validity of the IRFU assertion that they would lose 4mil but more so that the whole organisation was operating on so little. Then some reports came about it being closer to 15mil but nothing concrete.
Also many speculated as to the price hike during the 3 years we were playing in croke park and tickets were costing 80 bucks a pop when just the year before it was 35 in landsdown... Now in new Landsdown its 60 or there about.

Some say the IRFU got a few bumper years out of that but then they say it was no different as they had to pay the GAA, and the cost of the new Landsdown stadium.

Even if we go on the estimate of 15mil per year, its still a very conservative budget.

As for Ulster and Connacht, well for sure Its fair to ask if they receive the same treatment but there is a caveat. Politics still hold sway and if ulster dont quite match the budgets of leinster and Munster, u can be fully sure its a very nominal amount which separates them. i would bet my salary they are all more or less equal. Certainly Ulster have splashed the cash in the past 2 years for foreign talent and not cheap players either. SO they get it from somewhere.

Connacht on the other hand deserve it, but will not receive more money. They are simply an A side developing talent for the other provinces and the IRFU have as much said that on several occasions. They have also said that if they provide money to Connacht they take it from the other provinces. We all lose, Its just maths.

That makes sense if the IRFU negotiate the TV rights for the sides, do they also pay in gate receipts, or do those and other ground based things - programmes, hotdogs etc go straight to the clubs?

The gate proceeds from the national team are a very large part of the IRFU yearly earnings, i know that for sure, as for the club Gate fees im not sure. I think possibly the hot dog guy is just leases the contract...
But i remember last year it being stated in the news papers that there is a very clear cap on how much money each club can generate through dealings outside of the IRFU, marketing, endorsements and so on. Some have criticized the IRFU for this, others have said its very smart and keeps them in control.

All the clubs operate online shops through the internet and im pretty sure that their is a percentage which goes to the IRFU. Munster and Leinster in particular operate very aggressive mechanising campaigns and seems that in the last few years i have seen so many people i grew up with wearing leinster/munster merchandise to the pub on a saturday night and i know they never held a rugby ball in there lives never mind played the game but thats a product of good marketing and success of the the clubs more then rugby becoming more popular.

Seems its fashion now to have an away leinster jersey... and then the so called intellectuals have Connacht jerseys... and use the Irish translation of their name... Yet never ever touched a rugby ball i their lives. Rugby is fashionable in ireland these days. And hell if thats not great marketing i dont know what is.


Now one more bit of interesting info for u SARS, u will like this.

Rugby players in Ireland dont get paid more then other countries. For example the highest salary for along time would be Brian O'Driscoll (and with good reason) his salary is reported to be around 400K per year. Now thats a far cry from the millions players of his calibre would make in france.
HOWEVER.
Professional sports people in Ireland do not pay TAX. Well that is to say they do pay tax while they are playing, and when they retire, providing they retire in Ireland that is! They get it all back!
So when Brian O'Driscoll retires, he will receive.... wait for it.... a staggering 42% of his entire earnings while he was a professional, back in to his account!

And thats why peter stringer is on a short term contract with sarries! he will be back fo retire in ireland and get his money.

Swear Word Exclamation!!!!

Can I get myself registered as a sportsman? I really did not know that at all - thats very odd - why is that - I know horse racing has a huge financial clout but I wouldn't have thought rugby would - unless the ball reminded Messrs Haughey & Ahern of the shape of the brown envelopes that turned up on their desks!

That is very odd, is it along the lines of those in the arts not getting taxed? Though I wouldn't have thought Messrs Cullen & O'Callaghan would be able to do much above finger painting!

Thats fascinating and I certainly couldn't ever see that happening in the Uk or France, I'm also kind of surprised that the IMF aren't looking at that and the stud farms and saying to Michael Noonan - there's another €10M for you!

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