would take baines right now but think they both are good.

shame we don't have such quality on offer at right back. smalling did better than Johnson does!

comment by Totally Charming & Wonderful (U6489)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
I think he probably is too. I don't watch enough Everton but I do watch enough Chelsea to know that it is far from impossible to be better than Cole.
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Cole was the beast left back in world football (IMO) for best part of a decade. He is the long of heroic performances for both club and country, unfortunately all those performances are in games his team are camped in their own half trying not to concede

Roy has already come out and said he is working towards a particular style of football, Cole cannot be a part if what Roy is describing. As I said vs a Germany or Spain where we are going to have to sit in our half and counter then he is the perfect option.

But any other time we need a full back comfortable in possession who offers something. He isn't so far behind Cole defensively (the cole of today) that we should miss out on his ability.

Mr Reasonable (U2320)

As has been pointed out, I think Cole is recognised as one of the most (if not the most) consistent performers at International level, particularly from an English perspective.

Nothing in the past couple of years, in terms of his performances in an England shirt, have suggested that has changed.

"unfortunately all those performances are in games his team are camped in their own half trying not to concede"

Absolute rubbish.

How many games do Chelsea play like that?

"Cole cannot be a part if what Roy is describing"

Why not?

"But any other time we need a full back comfortable in possession who offers something"

The idea that Baines is more comfortable in possession than Cole is laughable.

The idea that Baines is more comfortable in possession than Cole is laughable.
_______

Winston

I'm gna tell you this now. Cole is very uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. Ive been watching him for years and he's gradually got worse and worse. Its not laughable at all.

Do you know he avoids using his right foot when he finds himself in a situation where it's ridiculous to even think about using his left, he will still use his left and end up putting other team mates under pressure. Even if his whole body shape is wrong for the left, he will use the outside of his left foot to make a pass back. That's the lengths he goes to, to avoid using his right. I'd call that uncomfortable with the ball at his feet.

Add to that, he is very ponderous with the ball. His first thought will always be from now on to play it back to Terry or whoever the CB is. His throw ins last about 30 seconds. He can never decide who to throw to or where to throw it. Small thing to pick on but in a game, these things matter.

Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)

Did you watch Baines the other night? To call him comfortable on the ball is a joke.

Great end product, but comfortable on the ball?

There's barely an Englishman that that does apply to!

That was more my point.

Hmm. I'd say he's more comfortable on the ball than Ashley Cole mate.

Yes I agree. There are very few Englishman you'd trust with the ball in a tight situation. There are not many who can maneouvre their way out of 2/3 players. I've noticed Wilshere can do it. Swivel and drive forward.

Anyway I think by christmas, we should have some sort of better more informed opinion on who is currently better. Baines or Cole.

Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)

Don't agree at all - not really sure how anyone can be so definitive.

Why by Christmas?

Because, I've seen Baines dribble with the ball comfortably past two three players and put a good cross in. Ashley Cole cannot do this. He could probably have done, a few years back. Not now though.

By Christmas, we'll have played more games by then.

Mr C

It's very refreshing to see someone on here not using club loyalties to defend their player in a debate between 2 players

Robb, most if not all fans wouldnt pass up an opportunity to label their players as one of the best in the league in their position.

The fact that the Chelsea fans on this thread havent done that, tells you we're seeing something in Ashley Cole that doesnt make him the best LB in the premier league anymore.

Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)

Sorry, I don't buy that at all. Ashley Cole can dribble. The idea he suddenly can't do it is a little far fetched.

As I said, anyone trying to be conclusive in a comparison is being a little naive I think.

By Christmas, barely anything will have changed.

comment by Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)
posted 2 minutes ago
Robb, most if not all fans wouldnt pass up an opportunity to label their players as one of the best in the league in their position.

The fact that the Chelsea fans on this thread havent done that, tells you we're seeing something in Ashley Cole that doesnt make him the best LB in the premier league anymore.
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Agreed. I commend Winston's attempts to argue the impossible but Baines really is the better player now.

I havent seen him dribble Winston, have you?

Have you asked your Chelsea mates who have a box, about all the things that we've discussed on this thread?

"to argue the impossible"

After praising the maturity of debate, you go and post a childish comment like that.

Shame.

Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)

Ashley Cole can't dribble.

Sorry, but if that's your contribution then I don't really know where to go from there!

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 seconds ago
"to argue the impossible"

After praising the maturity of debate, you go and post a childish comment like that.

Shame.
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Chill out man.

Were you joking?

I wouldnt be downplaying Cole just to wind you up. He plays for my club. I'm giving you a fair analysis of him here. You wont see him run the ball and if he does, he quickly retreats and passes back. Honestly, I moan and whinge about what Cole does every game. The flaws ive mentioned are not something ive plucked out of thin air to annoy you

Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)

No, they are however your opinion and I don't agree with it.

I think both Cole and Baines will look to pass and move rather than dribble, as would most full backs.

Mr Chelsea,

I do get where you are coming from with Cole. The thing is, as much as you are being critical with a player from your own club, I think people are guilty of the opposite in terms of Baines and his contributions. The Poland game the other night is a good barometer due to just how much space he was allowed (both in an attacking sense and in terms of defensive accountabilities), he had a good game but in all honesty, it really wasn't difficult for him. Contrast that to the game he had against us in the league and he was anonymous, because we didn't allow him to cross the centre line for most of the game.

I get that people see him running down the wing and putting a cross in and think "Cole doesn't do that, Baines is much better at that", but for me, it is all about how the team is set up. Everton are set up precisely to allow Baines to do it, they cover through their deep midfield. They also have the front men that thrive off crosses out wide.

Ultimately, as I said earlier in the thread, it depends on how England set up the front four as to who would be best for me.

meltonblue (U10617)

I agree, and it's the same thing that Moyes seems to want to change at United.

The big difference for me, is that England will be going to the World Cup as an average side - make no mistake.

We are probably on a par with teams like Russia, and it's questionable how we sit in comparison to the second rate South American teams, given the location.

So I don't see why we'd go there to set up with a more attacking intent that releases our full backs.

It's not about being defensive, it's about recognising you will not enjoy 50% + possession and responding to that, in my opinion.