Leinster

Ding

Not in a twist mate, maybe just the rueing the Saints taking the foot of the gas at half time last year.

And you're right SARS is a good guy

As for the England v Rumania game, I just got bored. I stayed to watch because I was driving, but many of the guys I was with got up and went to the bar, things were that poor.

Cheers chaps - very kind of you

I don't remember the England - Romania game, though I guess if it was in a knock out competition you might say that points difference could be important - having said that I don't like to see sides run up that sort of score as I feel it denegrates the opposition, sometimes to the extent that they cease playing.

I guess the next question is who would we see stopping Leinster - and when? O'Driscoll has talked about "building a dynasty" - personally I think that's impossible as rugby always seems to be changing with sides leapfrogging each other, which I think is good for the game.

In Ireland I think Munster are ina rebuilding phase and won't be back to their best for a few years yet, Ulster look like they're being broken up a bit with major changes all round. The Welsh clubs look like they'll suffer next year as players go to France. In England the number of games and the salary cap are still a thorby issue, which leaves us with the big spending French perhaps?

Sexton and co (elite players) only played 22 to 26 club games this year IN TOTAL! thats league and HC. Why.... Because they are being managed properly thats why to Irish teams made it to the final. Because at the end of the year is was a squad not a first 15 who got there. BOD talked about a dynasty, but he also mentioned that he didn't come in until the KO stages of the HC. And that O'Mally and co (second string side) had done the hard graft.

Sorry to say it but this business of too many games is a giant pile of steaming BS The french have alot more than the English.

The salary cap hog wash does not wash either. Why... because Irish teams manage well enough with not much more cash and a massive limit on the number of foreign players. 4 to be exact. All the Irish teams have 4 foreign players Max. And people have been giving Ulster a hard time this year because they have 3 Saffas. LMAO talk about throwing stones in glass houses!

As for France. There problem is that they think a drop goal is a good thing. And play accordingly. They are all bash and smash and who has the biggest scrum. Well in the words of Stuart Barns,who i hate, but has a fair point. Leinster have put the old adage out of commission "Forwards win games and Backs decide by how much" Because they are the only team who play a complete, truly complete game.

In closing i think people are just going to have to accept that with the constant rise of irish rugby over the past few years, an all Ireland final was inevitable.

However. Im going to bask in the warm glow of my teams achievements right now because one sure and certain thing is true. THIS WILL NOT LAST! teams will always spend most of their lives chasing a championship rather than enjoying winning a championship.

So what im saying is this, Right now Leinster are on top, a few years ago it was Munster and Toulouse and Leicester tigers and so on and so its just a cycle.

Oh and i wanted also to mention that the final next year is in DUBLIN..... could it be 4 in 5 years.... Que the evil Jaws music!

On the wage cap, I don't think its a problem with individual players, but more with the number of games played - c.f. Sexton they're pretty knackered at the seasons end and need managing better.

A larger squad salary cap would allow for a larger squad and also for player development where less important league games and things like the Anglo-Welsh Cup could be used to develop newer younger players, or help bring back players from injury

honestly i dont buy any of the BS coming from France and the England on this and i find it a little insulting sometimes. A good article on the subject is here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/20/leinster-success-pursuit-excellence?newsfeed=true

and particularly this part
"Much has been made in England and France about an inherent advantage enjoyed by the leading Ireland provinces. Not only do they not have to worry about relegation with the RaboDirect Pro12 ring‑fenced but qualification for the following season's Heineken Cup is never an issue. They are, it is said, free to concentrate on Europe.

The failure of any of Wales's four regions to make an impact in the Heineken Cup is never cited in evidence, and Scottish sides have only twice made it to the knockout stage. What is also ignored is that Irish sides have won the RaboDirect, formerly the Magners League, in three of the past four seasons. Leinster face Ospreys in the play-off final in Dublin on Sunday.

The notion is that everything for Leinster revolves around the Heineken Cup is anathema to their Lions full-back, Rob Kearney. "The league is our bread and butter," he said. "We were really disappointed at the way our season ended last year. We beat Northampton to clinch the Heineken Cup but then lost to Munster in the Magners play-off final. The league is important to us and we want to do something special."

the article continues but you know im quite happy to see that someone recognizes all the aspects and is also not buying into the rhetoric coming from France and the AP lot.

Sorry SARS you know its not a shot at you mate. But some of the Idieas being put forward just grate me. No body was talking about sweeping changes when Toulouse and the Tigers were felling all before them.

And im not going to sit back while other unions point fingers envious fingers at our system.

Bottom line. I say to them. Get your own house in order before you start telling us how to do things.

I don't remember the England - Romania game,
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SARS

It was a friendly at Twickers in November 2001. Billy Whizz scored 5 or 6 tries. Might even have been Hodgson's first game.

146-0, but really England were 146 for 0 at the close. It was that turgid to watch try after try being scored..

Hi there

I agree its a case that the RFU etc should get their house in order. How I'd see it is Irish clubs are doing really well, what can we learn from them to make us better. Fundamentally its about what the RFU, WRFU etc can do to change to improve and I certainly wouldn't ever wish to suggest something should be done to hold others back, but rather to boost English / Welsh / Scottish teams.

For Scotland and Wales I think there is a deeper issue, and that is that the provincial model doesn't seem to be working - Welsh national performances have been exceptional but club performance has been poor and fans don't seem to be engaging with the Blues, Dragons etc. The older generation perhaps long for a return to the days of Ebbw Vale, Heriots FP, Melrose, Pontypridd, Pontypool etc and for me these names are sacred too - though thats just my love of history & tradition in sport.

But back to the point, what can be done to improve English / Welsh / Scottish performances - after winning 6 cups in 12 years, of which English clubs didn't compete in 2 years! English sides have now won 0 in 5 - the world has changed and the question is what change is needed to adapt?

Performance on a national basis, and being able to pick players from any nation wouldn't seem to imply it was something fundamental about the players as individuals.

I think any player wants to win any game, and it makes no more difference is you're Rob Kearney for Leinster or Dai Jenkins playing for the Cross Keys against the Kings Head, so I certainly don't buy the "Leinster just want the HC". I think every player wants to win every game, Leinster are doing just that, but Leicester, Northampton, Bath, Gloucester are not (I will leave it to Gecko, Captain H etc to give the Welsh view).

What the solution to this is, and whether that solution is desirable in accomodating it with domestic leagues, is open to interpretation. In my view I'd like to see the salary cap raised, not to buy in bigger stars - I think the Aviva sides have their fare share - but to increase squad sizes and allow the big players to focus on the big games (interestingly as an example Ben Foden played more than 25% more games last year than Rob Kearney, despite Northampton going out at the group stage)

Again, I'm keen to emphasise that this should be about how the English / Welsh sides can improve, rather than how Irish / French sides could be pulled back. We the situations reversed the same should be true, i.e. how the worst can improve to join the best, rather than how the best can be dragged back to the worst.

SARS

As a proud Scot it grieves me to say this, but I just don't see a place for Scottish clubs (as currently constituted) in the future scheme of things.

The regional set up has worked very well in Ireland because everybody has an affiliation with their province.

It has worked to an extent in Wales though the idea of the All Whites of Swansea being the same as the All Blacks of Neath will always be anathema to many people. However, the fundamental strength of rugby in Wales will get over that.

Not so in Scotland. Just shoehorning 2 new clubs into the 2 biggest cities has not worked. OK, this year Glasgow got to the Pro 12 semis and Edinburgh got to the HC semis, but many people were left wondering "How the hell did that happen?". I hope to God I am wrong, but I just don't get the feeling that either will be a major threat in the future

Hi there Show (if I can shortened to that)

Good to have a Scottish fan on here, we seem to have a strong Irish contigent, reasonable Welsh & English ones with the odd Australian so good to have a Scotland fan on too!

What do you think the way forward is for Scottish rugby, would it be better to break away and form your own league, or to link to the Aviva Premiership, and would this be as Glasgow & Edinburgh or as Kelso, Heriots, Watsonians etc

I have to say I'm a little worried for Scottish rugby at the moment, it seems to be drifting from one disaster to the next with no one with a vision or control at all - who is there out there who could see and say "this is the way forward" at both a club & national level? Is there a former great like Gavin Hastings who has that knowledge and clout?

In England the reaction to professionalism has almost been to circle the wagons and pretend it goes away, the sides competing now are the same as they were 20 years ago bar Newcastle really, though the likes of Rosslyn Park, London Scottish & London Welsh have suffered. I think there are enough sides and fans to do that, and I think the same may also be true in Wales.

I'm an arch traditionalist and just the sound of names like Ebbw Vale, Pontypridd, Kelso etc has a ceratin ring to it, and I'd like to see them restored to their former glory, though I'm not sure that's either possible or what fans in Wales and Scotland do want