Hi all, (Caution, long post, hope it makes sense)
I'm sure that everyone was very disappointed with our performance today, and rightly so. However, before we get too carried away and overreact, I think we need some context about our situation.
Firstly, we are still recovering financially from the reign of Dalglish and Comolli. FSG sanctioned huge investment into the club, both in terms of transfer fees and wages, and got very little return on their investment. Considering the economic plan of self-sufficiency which FSG are aiming for, we needed a period of financial recovery. Massive investment this summer was never a viable option, and would be damaging in the long run.
Secondly, as a result of previous regimes, Rodgers was left with an aging and high-earning squad largely unsuited to the system he wished to implement. One prime example of this is Steven Gerrard. Despite his undoubted quality, he is 32 years old now and has never played in a system like this before, given his age it may take him a while to adapt to this system.
The system Rodgers plays will take some time to fully implement. It is therefore natural that players who are not used to this system will have some difficulties performing. Considering that Rodgers system is one based on teamwork and movement, if one player is uncomfortable the whole team will suffer as a result. It is no coincidence that Allen has been our stand-out player thus far, as he is the only player we have who is truly comfortable with this system.
Thirdly, it is also clear that we need more options up front. This is a major problem for us at the moment. However, I believe that simply signing one proven goalscorer will prove to alleviate much of our concerns, as without a focal point for our attack, players such as Suarez and Gerrard will Suffer. However, despite this, I believe that a lack of a proven goalscorer is of less concern than implementing a whole new style of play.
Now, I believe that addressing the three issues above may take some time, especially the first and second. However, I believe that what FSG and Rodgers are trying to achieve is possible as a long term project, considering the core and infrastructure we currently have in place. I have complete faith in Brendan and his system, and while we will probably not get 4th this season, this season will be an important stepping stone for what we want to achieve.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I just felt that considering our context and circumstances, things are not as bad as they seem. We are only 3 PL games into the season... be patient.
Context
posted on 2/9/12
Verbal Jouster and Grizzly,
Like you two, I believe that patience is the key. As long as Rodgers stays in charge and is back by the board, I believe that this season will be viewed positively in the grand scheme of things, regardless of the outcome.
posted on 2/9/12
BR needs to show his metal and either bench Gerrard or play him in the front 3
BR's way of playing will come good however it will take time and he needs the players to fit the system.
posted on 2/9/12
Well since taking over they have spent roughly £120 million, not taking sales into account. For a team outside of champions league, that to me is a huge investment.
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Well take the sales into account then!
While your at it, you could add in the millions saved by reducing the wage bill. Factor in ridiculously low price paid for the club and take off the money brought in from the increased merchandising and sponsorship deals.
I have no idea what this figure is, but it will be a lot more accurate than spouting the tabloid inspired £120m rubbish.
posted on 2/9/12
PPD,
The reason that I didnt take sales into account it that it seemed irrelevant to me. They have invested over £120 million on players. Even if the majority of that came from sales, it makes no difference to me. They could have easily taken the money from the Torres transfer, and gave Kenny half of it. The same could be said of every outgoing transfer. But no, they have always gave us the full money from sales, plus extra funds.
Whichever way you look at it, they have allowed us to buy £120+ million of players despite us being out of Europe, which is a huge amount of money.
This is the first season where we have really taken advantage of merchandising and sponsorships, not to mention the increased money from lowering wages, which in total will account to around £75 million per year.
Then consider that they gave Rodgers around a £30 million budget, and our current wage bill will likely be around £25-30 million per year at least. That means that this year they will spend around £60 million of the £75 million they have brought in, and we have another transfer window to go yet.
If you combine how much they paid for the club with our net transfer spend, the figure is around £350 million. Given the fact that they only stand to make a £15 million profit this year, would you not consider that to be a huge investment in the club?
posted on 2/9/12
Well since taking over they have spent roughly £120 million, not taking sales into account.
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I would hazard a guess that that figure is rubbish. If you are basing this figure on the amount the club has spent during that time, then you would be wise to include sales, indeed, you would be wise to include all revenue streams that the club has generated during their time at the club.
It's the same with City. People go on about our owners spending £500m (or whatever) on the team. This is simply incorrect, and portrays an ignorance of how such owners, in fact any owners, operate. As Paisley's Patterned Dreams rightfully points out, everything needs to be taken into account before a true reflection of such investment is ascertained.
posted on 2/9/12
RipleysCat,
I must not have been very clear. The incoming money from sales and revenue streams are obviously important. However, I believe that £120 million spent on players is huge even with the incoming money. It still represents a willingness to invest, as they could have just kept all of the money received and kept it for themselves at a huge profit.
To me, it is the same as someone making £50 million on the stock market and then buying £50 million worth of stocks with the profits, it shows a willingness to invest rather than just sitting on your profits.
posted on 2/9/12
Have the points made have completely sailed over your head?
FSG have in total spent £50m net on the squad or 12.5m per transfer window. With the wage budget slashed and revenue streams increased,
They are capitalists and are looking to maximise their profit margin in the long term. Hopefully along the way they will get the footballing part of "the progect" correct.
posted on 2/9/12
I do understand your point about net spend in relation to wages and revenue streams. But I cant help but feel that considering the amount of money we have recouped in sales, a positive net spend still points to good investment on their part. The money we have made in sales would be enough to finance purchases on its own.
As for the revenue and wages, this is the first season where the positive benefits will really be felt, so we will have to see in due course how they respond.
Your are right in saying that they are capitalists, and will look to make a profit from our club. However, I think they realise that in order to maximise profits in the future, they need to first invest in the club. Hopefully they are not idiots and continue to invest in the club until a point where they can take some profit without hindering the development of the club.
As long as they do this, they can take some of the profits if they want. Any owner would be the same
posted on 2/9/12
It's not only that, Allen is our best midfielder atm, only fully fit Lucas can rival him...
posted on 3/9/12
I think we've been able to spend enough money to have a decent side
The biggest mistake BR has made so far is thinking the players should adapt to his system. As a manager he has to make the best use of the resources available to him and assess these resources before deciding on the patterns of play. The evolution of the system will take time and is something that should happen gradually
Last season Liverpool got back to playing good passing football. The major fault was the lack of goals...chances taken. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that you there is an expectation that you have to win matches and looking at the resources available what would be the best way to change that ASAP....perhaps buy a quality striker!
Borini is a squad man, not a proven 20 + goals a season striker, He looks lost playing wide / no better than Downing and much less effective than Kuyt
A winning team has to be able to mix its approach and having Carroll for some games / using him from the bench would surely be a better option than what we have now. Even if he brought midfielder Dempsey where did BR think / and in fact where does he think the team can go without strikers. The pick up in performance and confidence Carroll would of had in pre-season BR just killed.
He's left us paying Joe Cole £90k a week and got rid of one of his better options to help us win games. Luis for all his attributes is a link man, someone to make something happen and create space / opportunities for an apex predator.
The priority is to win.....I'm not convinced BR see's that.