I know this is football manager stuff but frankly its festive time here and I have nothing to do this afternoon. So was thinking about a change in the way we set up.
Now most of the teams in the world play 4 at the back with 2 CB's and 2 FB's. Now the primary problem for us over the last 3 seasons has been the midfield. 4-4-2 or its similar versions that we use get overrun especially against those who play with 3 CM's ala Arsenal,Barca etc.
Now instead of 4 at the back can we switch to the 3-5-2 formation with 3 CB's. We all know how much Sir Alex loves to play with 2 strikers so using that formation we won't get overrun in CM as well as play with 2 strikers. Now our full-backs Rafael, Evra, Buttner love bombing forwards and all have high energy levels. So they have the ability to operate as wing-backs similar to Alves, Marcelo or Clichy. Even Valencia can do a terrific job as a wing-back.
But the only problem is that the CB's must be extremely mobile. Now Rio, Vidic and Evans lack mobility. Jones and Smalling are very fast and mobile and hence can fit that formation. With this formation we can play 3 CM's and hence won't get overrun in CM along with 2 striker.
The disadvantage being we would be susceptible to crosses against teams who rely on wing-play like Stoke, Munich etc. However I feel against teams like City, Arsenal, Barcelona this formation would be ideal as their creativity comes from the center and thus we could match the numbers in CM without sacrificing a striker.
GK
Jones Vidic Smalling
Rafael Carrick Evra Anderson/Cleverley Kagawa
Rooney RVP
3 AT THE BACK AKA 3-5-2
posted on 19/9/12
Now the primary problem for us over the last 3 seasons has been the midfield. 4-4-2 or its similar versions that we use get overrun especially against those who play with 3 CM's ala Arsenal
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I'm sure we put 8 past Arsenal playing with 4 at the back. Don't think you used a very good example there!
posted on 19/9/12
Last night showed the stupidity in playing 3-5-2 against a team like Real because Maicon was left all alone to play against Ronaldo and Marcelo and later in the game Di Maria had a lot of success on the right.
It's a good formation on paper but in practice any team with a destructive winger will thrive against that formation.
It would probably work better against a team like Barca but then again Spain destroyed Italy (with Italy playing 3-5-2) in the Euro final.
posted on 19/9/12
funrob
But City did not set up with 3-5-2. They ended with 3-5-2
And the same Italy that got destroyed in the final, played Spain in their group with 3-5-2 and gave them a mighty scare. In fact, Italy were the better team.
posted on 19/9/12
I thoroughly recommend Jonathon Wilson's book 'Inverting the Triangle' to anyone who wants to improve their take on formations. It has done more than any other single thing to enrich my understanding of the game.
One of the things that I took from it was the point that no particular system is inherently better than another. There are cycles and fashions in the game, wherein a new system is devised to exploit weaknesses in the predominant one. Then this new one gets used more widely and eventually people come up with ways of beating it. Sometimes it goes full circle. E.g. 3-5-2 with a sweeper was very widely used in the 80s, especially in German and Italian football, then went out of fashion in the 90s when teams found ways of exploiting its weaknesses. Now it is coming back because it can outnumber a 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 in the (attack + midfield) front lines, while retaining defensive solidity, especially in the centre.
The other point is that players make formations work and there are lots of subtle variations within a formation that can e.g. make it an attacking 3-5-2 or a very defensive one (more like a 5-3-2).
posted on 19/9/12
Well, they started playing 3-5-2 after 36 minutes which is practically most of the game.
And I did say that 3-5-2 would work better against teams like Spain or Barca but it would be madness to play it against a team like Real.
City only got close to Real in scoreline because of Real's wasteful finishing and a beast of a player like Toure.
If we played 3-5-2 against Real I can't see anyone in our midfield doing what Toure does and Evra and Rafael would probably retire from football after seeing what Ronaldo, Marcelo and Di Maria did to them.
posted on 19/9/12
We could play a 352 formation but where would this leave Young, Nani etc?
With a midfield of Scholes, Carrick, one of Anderson/Cleverley/Kagawa will have to provide a link between midfield and spread the ball well to the flanks when the wingbacks move forward, and also they would have to force back the oppositions defensive midfielders, for example what Yaya did yesterday against Alonso especially after Essien was taken off for the more attacking player.
posted on 19/9/12
If we had Marcelo and Dani Alves on the flanks I'd consider it, as we have Evra and Rafael its a no go.
Also, it never ends up being 352, its what managers use when they know they will defend a lot, its basically a 532.
posted on 19/9/12
That's why it was mentioned in the OP that 3-5-2 would be ineffective against teams who rely on width like Stoke, Bayern or even Madrid. However if you want to outnumber teams in the middle of the park vibr predominately play a more possession based game like City, Barcelona or Arsenal that would be a very good formation as it would also keep both their centre backs engaged as we play with 2 strikers.
The moral of the story is we need to switch between formations depending upon the opposition we face.
posted on 19/9/12
not sure if someone has mentioned this but wigan last season finshed stupidly good (beating Liverpool, Stoke, Arsenal, Man Utd + Newcastle) and unlucky against chelsea and they was 3 at the back..
posted on 19/9/12
But as we rely on width (and always have done), its a no go.