Hopefully...

Oscar, how can a team that just lost 8-0 still "look good" If spurs would of lost 8-0 i can guarantee you wouldn't be saying this, you would be all over the gaff WUMMING and so you should. Losing 8-0 is an absolute atrocious result and this is not the 1st time Lambert has recieved a thrashing like this under his management. I compeltely understand the Villa fan even if he is being a bit knee jerk. Anyway i'm not sure if Villa losing like this is a good thing for us because we have them next

***********************
Oscar, how can a team that just lost 8-0 still "look good"
***********************
Don,
Because it very easily could have been 9-0.

I didn't expect 8-0 at Chelsea specifically, but most Villa fans have been saying that we'll get a few shock wins and take a few drubbings this season.

This isn't a huge shock - anyone who's been supporting Villa since the 80's or longer can see what Lambert's doing and can see that it's a good thing and 100% necessary.

We had a bad day against a world class side, but the next couple of seasons will see less of this.

How anyone can say McLeish was better is beyond me. You're either mad, blind or stupid.

For me there seems to be very little between McLeish + Lambert and I am not "mad, blind or stupid" as you say so haughtily. So far we have taken a point a game in the PL, under McLeish we took a point a game last season. Either way you look at it this would not have been acceptable under any Villa manager in the past. This club should be looking to take 1.5 points on average throughout the season. In terms of transfers I can't honestly say either is better. Lambert did well to sign Benteke, and Vlaar was another very good signing, but he has also signed a load of unknown players who for me aren't going to become anything special. The fact that we're being linked for a move back for Forrester when he wasn't good enough before says it all. Lambert has a small club mentality and I fear this is going to f us up long term. We needed a manager who would attract quality players to the club and was a winner. People say we have a bright future: I just see us being another Norwich in two or three years (unless we get relegated which is quite possible). Personally, as a fan of Villa for a long time, I longed for much more than this when Lambert came in.

If you look at Tottenham and Everton and how they keep trying to improve each year and target quality players to take them forward, it makes me even more frustrated. The media claim a lot of the reason for our struggles is because we've lost key players (Young, Downing, Milner, Barry). Well, Everton have lost Rodwell, Arteta, Pienaar and Lescott in the last few years and continued to compete at the high end of the table. Tottenham have lost Modric, Van der Vaart, and before them Berbatov and Keane and have still continued to do well.

So many people blindly follow Lambert and our so called "proud" owners but look at what we've achieved this season, League Cup aside. We have a goal difference of -17, a terrible deficit for this stage of the season. We have suffered a biggest ever defeat in the PL. Lambert seems to be pushing matchwinners out of the squad like N'Zogbia, Ireland, Bent, possibly even Gabby and Albrighton, despite the fact that we struggle to score goals or create chances, and if things are to be believed he wants to bring in yet more League 1/2 players to replace them, a catastrophe if it goes ahead. What he should be doing with the aforementioned players is bringing the best out of them. We didn't spend 10 million on N'Zogbia to see absolutely no return, we didn't lose Milner to see Ireland frozen out, we didn't cough up 24 million on Bent just to see him wasted as he is now. The fact that we pay these guys big wages should be a reminder to Lambert that he needs to be trying to develop them into key players for the club. OK, it's nice to blood youngsters, especially if they have talent, but to throw all of them in at once is a disaster waiting to happen. If you have maybe three youngsters under 23 playing alongside experienced quality then that policy can work. When 8 or 9 of the first team are 23 or under with very little PL experience then you're obviously going to struggle. If we didn't have any players with experience waiting in the wings, fine, but we do: we have N'Zogbia, Ireland, Bent, Agbonlahor, El Ahmadi, and when you play a side of the calibre of Chelsea then experience counts for a hell of a lot.

This is why I don't trust Lambert. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing. His team selection is poor. We are the new Wigan. That is far from good enough. The people who defend him are the mad, blind and stupid ones.

Any manager who takes a club with a 138 year history to their worst ever defeat deserves a kick up the backside.

Alas. I fear Villa will be ok from what I saw against man u and Liverpool.

However, all this talk I'm hearing about villa's good run in the run up to this match shouldn't fool anyone. Draws against Stoke and QPR, as well as a late winner against a Reading side that looked to me like they'd nick it, don't inspire any firm confidence of a swift rise up the table.

At lest you've got the Mickey Mouse cup (as you were calling it less twoyears ago) to save your season, so fair dos.

I recall another Midlands club a couple of seasons ago winning the Mickey Mouse cup and then going on to get relegated. Could it happen again?

1987 - I know your opinions on experience and the need to bring in some of the older heads. I don't dismiss that in any way, though I don't agree with it 100% either.

I know you really do follow the villa and are passionate about the team, and I know you're big enough to admit when you've been wrong when it happens.

That said, you've posted this here and on SW and had similar responses. We're building, and this season is the first that there's been genuine optimism that we're moving in the right direction (though from a very low place). There are a few more months of football to be played and a transfer window to come. I'll judge PL after that, if you want to judge him now then I respect your opinion and we'll agree to disagree.

But the one thing I can't and won't take back is the (admittedly haughty) comment about McLeish. The football last season was insipid, dour, and genuinely tested the resolve of many a Villa fan.

We even picked up haters from other clubs (I'm looking at you Chronic) and understandably so. We were playing some of the worst football to ever grace the PL. And we signed Alan Hutton. You say the team should be built around Bent and N'Zog, but they'd not see the ball under AMC.

Either way, its Christmas - a time for sharing the joy and happiness that goes hand in hand with being a Villa fan. Let's see what happens over the next six weeks and if we're in the bottom three at the end of Jan I'll join you in the panic room.

1987 - the problem with your arguments is that you're being extremely selective in your facts. Play Gabby, Bent and Zoggy? They're all injured.

You can't compare us with Everton and the like when they lost a top player or two. When you have an able established manager like Moyes in place and a solid all round squad you can lose the odd top player, and find a means around the problem. Our problem was that by the end of last season we had a manager and squad which was seriously inadequate and only survived because there were others worse. We had to have a radical change. Basically the choices were accept relegation this season and rebuild from lower down, or do something now, accept the rough ride and hope to survive, while building for the future.

Lambert had a budget, not a bad one, but still limited. I think he's spent it wisely. He's mixed good players from across the water with young players with potential, while giving ex academy players their chance. Not all the players are young. Guzan, Vlaar and others are approaching the apex of their careers. He's getting performances out of Ireland and N'zogbia, when they're fit, which is more than McLeish managed last year.

You say that Spurs and Everton are trying to improve every year. So will we be; it's just that we're starting from a much lower level. In spite of suggestions that Benteke will move on, Lambert will not let him go. He aims to keep our top players, not sell them. And in spite of the rocky ride, we do have players of really good premier league quality. Look at Guzan, Benteke, Weimann, for a start. And I think Westwood, Clarke and Baker are getting there. Others may not quite make the grade; they will be moved on.

Lambert's ambitious, and very able. His experiences of German coaching are showing through. The reason why we've made big improvements over the last few weeks is because of the behind the scenes coaching. He insists his players are fit, very fit (unlike MON). But it's the way they are trying to play on the field which is the key. And it will improve. A lot.

You say we're (only) averaging 1 point a game; it should be more like 1.5. I agree. But I'm happy with 1 point a game at this point in the season, all things considered; a few weeks ago what worried me is that we'd get to the halfway point with it being a lot less. In fact before the last two games I could see us being stuck on 15 points from 19 games, and in the bottom three. Come 1st January we need to have at least 21 points from the 21. I think we'll do it and have a very good chance of doing better. I'm confident we'll pick up in the rest of the season, although don't rule out another mauling. In January we should have our injured players back, and more signings, all of which we need.

Even if Lambert (or another manager) had had four times the budget, he could have spent it and still had a dodgy team; it's happened in other clubs, a lot. I think he knows what he's doing, and we have to back him. Lambert didn't come here to create another Norwich or Stoke. He's aiming for the top 6 or higher.

Yes, I am passionate about Villa. Thank you for recognising that fact. And I don't believe Lambert is the right man to move us forward. Today, we're linked with Morison from Norwich. This is yet another player who will not take us forwards.

I admit that Lambert has signed a fantastic player in Benteke as well as a couple of others, but he has turned his back on players who can take the club forward. Bowery was a wasted signing, we could have just kept Delfouneso. Westwood is a tidy player, but didn't we already have Delph + Gardner who could pretty much bring the same to the team as Westwood? Holman has looked good on a free, but why does he favour him over Albrighton + N'Zogbia every game? Then there is Bannan. Again a tidy player, but Ireland is far better yet he insists on playing Bannan every time. El Ahmadi is good for the squad, but is really good enough to be first choice defensive midfielder? Clearly not, as he's not being played, but now we have no one playing that role in the first team as Bannan + Westwood are not defensive midfielders. Bennett was a poor signing - never good enough. Lowton has impressed me + looks good. However, we should have signed another centre back. Douglas was linked and we should have got him. Bent should be played alongside Benteke + Agbonlahor + N'Zogbia should be played on the flanks to provide pace. Our team can win games and score goals with that set up. In the middle Ireland and one of El Ahmadi, Delph or Westwood should play.

I don't think Lambert is right playing all the kids at the same time. For Tottenham he needs to wake up because we can win today if he plays the right team. I think (providing Vlaar, N'Zogbia and Gabby are fit):
Guzan
Lowton Vlaar Baker Clark
Gabby Ireland El Ahmadi N'Zogbia
Holman
Benteke

That team can win the game, believe me. If Lambert plays the kids again and we lose, I'll be fuming.

Hope everyone had a good Christmas