vettel going after all the records ?

I just do not see why we need to belittle each other to have a debate.

Like a-holes, we all have opinions and that's fine. We can present our opinions in a reasonable fashion.

It's not too much to ask, is it?

Martial, do not need to convince you of the dominance of the 2011 redbull. The results show it clearly. If his car wasn't the best on the grid and he was able to score 15poles and 11 wins, it stands to reason that he would be able to replicate such performances.

Since he hasn't it is clear that he had a distinct advantage. Even in 2009 and 2010, they should have won both championships but reliability bugged them throughout.

Admitting he has a fast car will not belittle his achievements martial, after all he still has to deliver but to dispute facts because they do not suit your agenda is disingenuous.

2010 is a typo

man unt devil

easy tiger -- who amongst us is belittling anybody , nobody is doing that as far as i can see , everybody is being fairly matey at the minute -

still cant agree with you about 2011 , as i said before drivers of the calibre of webber just dont have talent bypasses willy nilly for the whole season , if the red bull was so far in front mark would not have been blown off by button as he did -

to be perfectedly honest i believe mclaren had a very good version of the blown diffuser and of course there own flexi wing jiggery pokery that put them right up with red bull ,
plus i have always believed the mercedes engine to be the most powerful out there and the renault kers in the red bull was never as powerful as the mercedes version in the mclaren -
---- just my opinion but i believe putting all this together made the mclaren very competitive with the red bull -

as i said before in my opinion the difference was vettel , a/ because his self confidence and ability would of gone up level after his 2010 WDC and b/ i believe he was the only driver out of the mclaren and red bull drivers that had a real handle on the pirelli"s that year --

Sorry martial 2011 Vettel clearly had the fastest car. All I've heard on f1 interviews from opposing drivers and team managers is that Vettel has the fastest car. Granted that he needs talent to get the victories but there is no denying that his car was the fastest in 2011.

Didn't Mclaren have a poor start that year with their car development not up to speed?

I think I agree with the experts over Martial about the RB7. It was one of the cars of the generation and fair play to Vettel for nailing the championship with it.

chels

mclaren had a very good start to 2011 -- there were only ever 2 teams in it all season --

without a doubt in vettels hands the red bull was the fastest car whether or not it was the fastest car when it was not in vettels hands -
------------- is very much a different matter altogether

n six o six

what experts would these be then nsix --the only experts on the rb7 would be the people that created the machine ,

everybody else has an opinion -- nothing more -

I'm not trying to deny you of your opinion Martial, you believe what ever makes you happy

I am of a differing opinion to you with the end result being the same, Vettel did the business. He may have had the fastest car but regardless of that he ran away with the championship with it.

n six o six

fair enough -- no probs -

havent heard much from manx tonight , he is probably like a dog with 2 ddicks at the minute after his team won the prem --

as gooner i cant spout off very much

I think one could say that Vettel is certainly now as good as fellow 3 times world champion Nelson Piquet Sr. They have both cleaned up with titles in great cars