(Admin please multi-board)
Following Pepe Reina's alleged comments I thought it would be interesting to have rational debate.
It seems to be a completely subjective term and a term thrown about to either insult to a rival or to feed a superiority complex.
We seem to either define a big club based on past success or current success and IMO it is wrong to do either.
Take Chelsea and Liverpool for example. It's a rivalry that's been perpetuated by Sky (akin to Arsenal v Man U). Liverpool's pedigree in winning competitions in the past is unrivalled by any other club. Their trophy haul is far beyond that of Chelsea. On the flip side of the coin, Chelsea's recent success puts them above Liverpool and they can attract a higher calibre of player and have loftier ambitions. The same argument could be put forward with Manchester City and Arsenal.
There's also a case to be put forward about club membership. When you think back to the old days when clubs were just a fragment of the communities they served. A size of a club then was defined by how many members it had it regulars that attended. If that definition was taken today Arsenal would be the biggest in the country with the most members.
Similarly in Scotland, is there anyone that doesn't consider Rangers to be at least the 2nd biggest club in Scotland despite playing in the 4th tier of Scottish football this season?
I'd argue that the size of a club isn't necessarily a fixed term, but in a way... It is. It's a really confusing one.
I'd love to hear thoughts on this without slanging matches and petty arguments.
Admin would be great if you could multi-board
What is a "big club"?
posted on 23/6/13
would we be in the position we are without Roman...no...but we could have been bought up by all manner of rich benefactors...we are very attractive as a package...unlike lets say Aston Villa or West Ham as examples
posted on 23/6/13
Good job you beat us in that final game of the season to get in the CL or you might not have a club.
posted on 23/6/13
Robb, you say traditionally Chelsea aren't a big side. I don't know how old you are but prior to Liverpool's success of the 70' and 80's, Chelsea used to draw enormous crowds (our largest league attendance in in excess of 20,000 bigger than Liverpool). and were 'Traditionally regarded as a big club in the mold of Spurs Everton, City, Wednesday ect. Liverpool would have been in that same bracket in the early 60's, 70', 50's etc!!
Even clubs like Sunderland, Sheffield's Wednesday and Utd, Charlton, Blackburn, WBA, Birmingham, Bolton and Huddersfield have in the past recorded larger gates than Liverpool and were 'traditonally' regarded as big clubs.
It seems to me that this 'Traditional' terms is used by new generation fans who don't remember the true history of our great game!
posted on 23/6/13
Sheriff in the early 70's we still drew large crowds but with relegation and years of mediocrity that gradually dropped off and we had some well documented poor attendances in the 70's and 80's, although we would still get large crowds as well when big games came to the Bridge (I've personally stood on The Shed in crowds in excess of 55,000 more than once when we were in the 2nd Division) and yes the ground was a bit of a sheite hole apart from the East Stand which stuck out like a sore thumb surrounded by the other three sides!
posted on 23/6/13
Brummie
I'm aware of pretty much every generation of the game as while i'm in my 30's i've read most books about the older eras of the game.
When I say that Chelsea aren't a traditionally big side i'm not saying it in an insulting way like a lot of rival fans will say about you guys. I'm fully aware that you're not a Wigan or a MK Dons without Roman.
I just mean that IMO you're not a 'big' club over the past 100 years like Liverpool, United and Arsenal but are definitely in that second-third tier along with Spurs, Leeds, Newcastle, Villa and West Brom.
But like I said before, it's all relative and to the casual observer in 50 years from now perhaps you guys will be just as big to them as the massive clubs of the past 100 years are to myself and others.
There is no historical 'cut-off' point for me where a club can no longer become a traditionally huge club.
posted on 23/6/13
Lots of fans on here wont remember the 70/80s but I dont remember thinking im supporting a small club when we were garbage but still took 1000s away every week Chelsea have the 5th highest home av attendance all time & 3rd highest away support all time so pehaps not as small a club as the youngsters on here imagine.
posted on 23/6/13
Even in the mid 80's in front of 18k,when Chelsea played in Div 2,fans would not think we were a small club.
Definitions are relative,but pointless,as few fans are objective enough to admit the truth.
Chelsea have always had superb support,and now,in the 21st century,we have a team to match our support.
posted on 24/6/13
clapham...good stats...source..?
not that I disbelive you...just interested
posted on 24/6/13
Sheriff, the source for the all time average attendances was an internet source which has since disappeared. I don't know if there is another available but basically top spot predicably went to Man U, who were considerably well ahead of Liverpool in 2nd, with Spurs 3rd, Arsenal 4th and Chelsea 5th, with an average of over 33,000 approximately 2,000 behind Spurs.
As for away I didn't know that and do not know of any official source. All I can tell you is, between 75 and 85 I went to virtually every game home and away and the away support was absolutely phenomenal.
One week we could have just 18,000 at home and the following week have something like 8,000 away at somewhere like Burnley. It was generally considered we had the one of the largest away supports outside of Man U and Liverpool but as I say I couldn't confirm it and don't know what sort of numbers the likes of Spurs, City, Everton, Arsenal etc took away on a regular basis
posted on 24/6/13
Sheriff, l I found this you tube clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCQqiOlhY8c
I don't know who David Lacy is, looks like some sort of university professor, but he suggests that Chelsea had the 3rd largest away following after Man U and Liverpool!!