The route through youth

Good shout Ji. The only two to have properly proven themselves I'd argue would be Pique and Evans. The jury is out on the rest or they're not quite up there (imo)

Im not arguing about Rafael but using him as an exception to the rule as he wasn't sent out on loan.

Ji, regarding your point on right or wrong way I'd agree with that which is why I question the clubs insistence on doing it so rigidly (apart from the very odd exception)

Shawcross is 100% up there.... Don't be fooled by the unfashionable club he plays for, he is a top, top defender and was their captain at a young age. I really think that if the pro Arsenal media hadn't gone to town on him, he'd have made quite a name for himself, by now.

SAF openly said that he tried to resign him and considered him one that got away.

Fair point on Shawcross. Can add him to the ist per say.

Ji, regarding your point on right or wrong way I'd agree with that which is why I question the clubs insistence on doing it so rigidly (apart from the very odd exception)
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I think the club look for certain values in players, above and beyond raw skill. The loan moves and the idea of patience and moving up are part of what is instilled into the players deemed suitable for UTD.

I always thought that SAF seemed to be testing their personalities, as well as their skills.

I guess having a fairly rigid path to follow gives the players hope while they are lingering around in the reserves, seeing big names in their position, in the 1st team.

I just think it's too rigid. Especially when the loan clubs can be very unreliable and stunt their growth.

How can anybody call Welbeck average? Seriously!!!

He always turns up on the big occasion, Euro's, vs Madrid, that volley vs City.

His finishing aside be is one of the best forward line players in the league. His link up play and his vision is as good as any and he is playing out of position.

Fletcher, boy I miss him!

The deep end is always the best for me. Loans should for 6 months tops, then bring them back and throw them in. Perennial loans miss one key thing which is learning a teams system. They get coached in another system, need to master it only to come back when they should be taking advantage of their so called experience. All this assumes the manager uses them inthe right place or even at all.

The deep end shows if you can make it at YOUR club. It shows you what you should aim for. Some players go away and think they are good enough already and it can increase their impatience.

For me, the purpose of youth setups is to create players capable of playing for the club. Going on loan has very little effect in determining just how capable. In fact for me, the more loans you go on, the less likely you are going to play for your parent club