Gerrard/ Fergie

Because pundits don't discuss Man United players do they?

If that is the breach of ettiquette he was on about, then i'd be inclined to agree, that does seem a little unprofessional.

To be honest, when I first saw BR's comments I assumed it was because of comments made about Keane/Beckham/Ruud, and that those things shouldn't have been made public. If he's referring to Gerrard/Henderson (which, thinking about it, makes more sense) then I can understand some of his comments!

Because pundits don't discuss Man United players do they?
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Pundits aren't employed by clubs , they are commentators of the game, employed by the media.

I think you're just being contrary, lots of managers have mentioned this perception of etiquette before, he hasn't just made it up.

To be honest, when I first saw BR's comments I assumed it was because of comments made about Keane/Beckham/Ruud,
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No, I think he's talking about another club's players, though now you mention it, both Moyes and Wenger talked about the etiquette of things "staying in the dressing-room" , in response to the media fuss about Hodgson's astronaut joke.

You said anybody in the game, are they not in the game?

And many managers have been pundit while still in the job. Fergie isn't even a manager any more.

This whole 'I won't or you shouldn't discuss another teams' players' is some bull$hit nicety that doesn't actually happen in the real world.

Managers, players and coaches all make comments on other teams' players. Sometimes they are complimentary, sometimes not so much.

It's nothing new. The faux outrage around discussing other players is ridiculous.

Had Fergie not mentioned Gerrard not being a top top player there's no way Brentan would have come out and said he shouldn't be talking about other teams' players.

He's just being a sensitive little soul because Fergie made a comment that doesn't shine a glowing light on the almighty lord Gerrard, even though he was complimentary about him in the book.

Had Fergie not mentioned Gerrard not being a top top player there's no way Brentan would have come out and said he shouldn't be talking about other teams' players.
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Please work out WTF you are talking about before before responding, otherwise it's just a waste of time.

BR's quote about etiquette is clearly in relation to the comments about Henderson, you can work that out from the quote, if you'd bothered to read it.

Tbh, it's bizarre that he mentions him at all, in an autobiography. I can't imagine Jordan Henderson has played a hugely influential role in Fergie's career.

(Comments about Gerrard are a bit more understandable, as he was one of the big names during Fergie's tenure, and in fact, Fergie tried to buy him, so I'd say he's a bit more relevant to his autobiography).

Kemlyn, having just got home, I have finished the Liverpool chapter in teh book.

Re Henderson - We apparently scouted him a lot, and the mention of the way he runs was because United thought it may cause him problems later in his career. It wasn't a slight on how he ran - United just didn't want to take the risk.

Re Owen playing lots of games - No one said that the amount of early games he played was a factor in his development - more that it didn't allow him enough time to work on his technical ability, apparently.

Re Benitez - He was apparently called a Control Freak a level above that of SAF. And didn't want to make 'friends' with any other manager, and keep himself to himself.

He's actually fairly complimentary to your club and raises some good points around other subjects.

As far as I could tell there was no mention of him not getting a touch against Scholes/Keane & I don't believe I missed any of it. All that was said was "He didn't always play well against Man United, but was capable of winning matches by himself"

He also questions why Benitez was so reluctant to play him in CM.

Hopefully that clears up some of the misconceptions some Liverpool fans have had re the book.

Jay:

re: Henderson: The point I made about this was not that it was a slight on the way he ran. In fact, I thought that was a reasonably interesting observation, and we'll see if it bears out.

It just seems a bit random that he comments about him at all. United must have scouted loads of players, and BR’s point was that it’s a breach of etiquette to talk about another club’s young players. Clubs generally want their young players kept out of the limelight as much as possible.

I just find it a bit bizarre that Henderson gets any mention at all, tbh. Fergie would have known what kind of Press attention any comment about Liverpool or their players would get

Re: Owen
I know that Fergie believes that it was both physical and technical, because he said in 2012:
"You can play too much football, particularly young players growing and developing physically.'That’s exactly what happened with Michael.”

But whether it's physical or technical, there’s still no logic to it, if Giggs played more.

At the end of his second season (97-98), when Owen was 18, he came second to Zidane for World Player of the Year. He won the Premier League Golden Boot and was awarded the PFA Young Player of the Year award. He also finished in third place in the PFA Player of the Year.

He’d attended Lilleshall at 14, and If he’s already in that kind of company by the time he’s 18, I’d say he was already pretty developed. It doesn’t appear to suggest he was in more need of development than Giggs was in his equivalent season, yet Giggs played 51 games in his second season, and Owen played 44. The following year Giggs played 46 games, and Owen 40. In their fourth years, Gigs played 58, and Owen 30.

Owen played more international games, but all that does is take him closer to Giggs' higher club totals.

I’m not a Sports Scientist, so I don’t know what caused Owen’s later injuries, but if they were caused by playing too much, then Fergie exposed Giggs to even greater risk. I personally would hazard a guess that sitting on the bench all season, as he did at Real Madrid, and only coming on for the last half-hour, is not ideal for a pace player, and it was after that that he started getting injuries.

That's just a guess, though, I don't know enough about it, but Fergie's claim doesn’t add up either.
If Fergie says he wouldn’t have played him as much, it doesn’t particularly back his argument that he played Giggs more. And if he's arguing that he'd have developed him better, when he was standing next to Zidane on awards podiums at the age of 18, that's some claim. I can't quite see at what age this development would have taken place?

Re: Benitez
The Press have already started commenting on the notion of Benitez being a control freak, along the lines of “that’s a bit rich coming from Fergie”. Benitez wasn’t in the habit of banning journalists who wrote anything he didn't like that’s for sure (and as one journo pointed out on Sunday Supplement, sometimes even factual things)

As for him not making friends with other managers...I wouldn’t know, but I wouldn’t read that as an insult anyway. He’s very much a family man, and it’s not as if managers sit next to each other every day, like in an office. So I've no real comment to make about that, because it's a bit of a 'So what?' observation. I don't think Wenger's particularly chummy with other managers, either. Mourinho is, but in general it's more of a British thing, I think.

Re: Gerrard: The Daily Telegraph used a direct quote; “seldom had a kick” when he played against Scholes and Keane. Newspapers make up stuff, but they don’t usually make up direct quotes.

We’ll see....perhaps it’s in another part of the book, or perhaps they do make quotes up.

I did have a go at explaining this earlier.
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Sorry, I do try to follow the threads (in between working!), but I missed it...

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Giggs has been lucky with injuries his whole career,
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Yes, he’s still playing at 40, in spite of having played at least 40 more games than Owen in his first 3 years, which suggests, as you say, that “he’s been lucky with injuries”. So it’s down to luck, then ....nothing to do with playing too much?

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Giggs has always been a more technically gifted player & is still playing at 40!
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At the end of his second season (97-98), when Owen was 18, he came second to Zidane for World Player of the Year. He won the Premier League Golden Boot and was awarded the PFA Young Player of the Year award. He also finished in third place in the PFA Player of the Year.

Does that sound like somebody who was short of development? What’s Fergus saying, that he’d have made him better than Zidane??? (That’s some claim. If he is).

He continued scoring goals at a prodigious rate throughout his time at Liverpool, and for England, too.
It only started drying up after he went to Newcastle, and it's widely believed (including by Owen himself) that this was down to injury

I’m sorry, it’s a bit far-fetched to say that he was played too much, then claim that “it’s different” when it’s pointed out that he didn’t do the same thing for his own player.

They were both forwards, they both had pace. It's not an unfair comparison at all.

Feck, wrong thread
That's the second time I've done that, recently.