Fergie's book...

What do people experct from thiss book? Freguson was actually much more retrained than the sensationalising media portray. He doesnt come across as bitter, and he makes some pretty valid points regarding liverpool.

For 'Bitter' read competitive - why would fergie be bitter over liverpool, as he pretty much single handedly put them out to pasture in terms of competing for the league? If anything, he has more reason to gloat than he actually does..

He was saying about Rafa that if we won the ball in midfield we couldn't do anything with it, because we played Masch and Alonso in midfield. Or that he was surprised Rafa got the Chelsea job. Saying that he walked into established teams and with the Chelsea job he yet again landed on his feet.

And he did praise Benitez as well. Saying it was a shame that he didn't make friends with other managers as some of the lower managers would have loved to learn from him. Or that he was a 'skilled pragmatist' due to winning La Liga with 51 goals, although this was also used in a negative way as well.

s he pretty much single handedly put them out to pasture in terms of competing for the league?

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We done that to ourselves and he even says as much in the book.

He said that he was lucky to take the United job around the same time we hit a bad patch.

From which have never really recovered.

Just posted this on the wrong thread.
Now on the right thread...

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I did have a go at explaining this earlier.
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Sorry, I do try to follow the threads (in between working!), but I missed it...

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Giggs has been lucky with injuries his whole career,
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Yes, he’s still playing at 40, in spite of having played at least 40 more games than Owen in his first 3 years, which suggests, as you say, that “he’s been lucky with injuries”. So it’s down to luck, then ....nothing to do with playing too much?

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Giggs has always been a more technically gifted player & is still playing at 40!
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At the end of his second season (97-98), when Owen was 18, he came second to Zidane for World Player of the Year. He won the Premier League Golden Boot and was awarded the PFA Young Player of the Year award. He also finished in third place in the PFA Player of the Year.

Does that sound like somebody who was short of development? What’s Fergus saying, that he’d have made him better than Zidane??? (That’s some claim. If he is).

He continued scoring goals at a prodigious rate throughout his time at Liverpool, and for England, too.
It only started drying up after he went to Newcastle, and it's widely believed (including by Owen himself) that this was down to injury

I’m sorry, it’s a bit far-fetched to say that he was played too much, then claim that “it’s different” when it’s pointed out that he didn’t do the same thing for his own player.

They were both forwards, they both had pace. It's not an unfair comparison at all.

How much of Owen's injuries can be attributed to the amount he played when he was younger?

Giggs was not a forward, he was a winger. They are completely different types of players, some people just have different body make ups...

it's like trying to compare Anderson to Owen, or to Crouch. No one player is the same. Perhaps it was SAF's opinion on Owen specifically, that playing him that much was detrimental. Perhaps SAF felt Giggs was more suited to playing more games because of how he'd developed.

It's ridiculous trying to compare one player's fitness to the other.

How much of Owen's injuries can be attributed to the amount he played when he was younger?
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I don’t know, and nor does anybody else, but you said above that Giggs was “lucky with injuries”, and now you’re implying it was down to body-type.

Owen was still scoring goals when he was at Real Madrid, at the age of 26. (He was top scorer in La Liga per minutes played). He then went to Newcastle, and the goals started drying up after a long layoff from injury. (But it was an impact-injury, caused by a collision with a goalkeeper).

I don’t mind Owen, he’s ok, but he’s scratching around to justify the fact that his career went pear-shaped after he left us, and Fergus and Allardyce have pounced on it as an opportunity to wum Liverpool. Allardyce, too, said he would never make the same mistake with Jones, and then proceeded to play him in every single game after he said that (I’m guessing that’s “different”, too).

We didn’t want him to leave us, he was at the top of his game. One of his last goals for us was when he peeled off a defender inside the box, against Newcastle, and Gerrard found him with a 40-yard peach of a ball. It was a classic Owen goal, and Gerrard always knew exactly where to find him. There was no sign, at that point, that the goals were going to dry up any time soon. We wanted him back after he’d been to Spain, too, but he didn’t have the balls to stand firm with Real Madrid.

So to whose benefit would this extended career have been? Newcastle’s? United’s?....it wouldn’t have been to ours, because he chose to leave. It’s far-fetched to claim that he alone needed more time to develop, and other players didn't (after he finished second to Zidane for World Player of the Year), and there are in any case grounds for suspicion whenever Allardyce and Fergus start speaking in stereo (eg. their complete mis-reading of Rafa’s arm-gesture).

Owen himself admits he pushed Evans to play more, and quotes himself as saying “I can rest when I’m 40”. I think it’s an excuse for the fact that he made career choice that turned out wrong, and was later unlucky with injuries.

Fergus and Allardyce haven’t said anything about body-types either, as far as I’m aware. I think you’re expanding their argument from things they haven’t said, in order to justify the claim that they’d have treated Owen differently from their own players.

I'd trade those 3 trophies in to have given Evans the money Houllier got in the transfer market. Evans would have gotten us back to where we wanted to be
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no he wouldn't. evans lacked authority. could you imagine the "spice boys" emerging under fergie?

comment by (Kash) Coutinho's Through Ball (U1108) posted 3 hours, 55 minutes ago
I think calling Houilier useless is way off the mark. He did so much for the club and brought them out of the 70/80s way of thinking and into the real world. We started to focus more on youth development and he was a pioneer in the creation of Melwood.


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Agree!

comment by joely_the_goaly. (U15498) posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
I'd trade those 3 trophies in to have given Evans the money Houllier got in the transfer market. Evans would have gotten us back to where we wanted to be
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no he wouldn't. evans lacked authority. could you imagine the "spice boys" emerging under fergie?

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He had his own spice boys...Gary, Phil, Nicky and Paul.......



Thats the reason Lee Sharp did't hang about!