Money well spent?

good evening nsix

i would"nt put to much faith in how accurate autosport are on the teams budgets for the simple fact the teams dont tell autosport how much they spend

------ basicilly ferrari have said autosports figure is a load of bollox so clearly ferrari have not told autosport how much they have spent so logically there is no way autosport would know because it is confidential -

if they are making up a fairy story about ferrari chances are there estimates on the rest of the grid have about as much credibility as a scouse bin lifter
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/11/26/ferrari-deny-250m-f1-budget-report/

Saw this in the magazine a while back ~ well worth a read if you can get a hold of it martial artist, Autosport explain their method and it is certainly credible evidence based on publicly available and audited financial information.

Lotus are doing well, though you can add Kimi’s unpaid salary to that

andy b

yeh i think i saw it in august or maybe before , from what i could gather i think it was mainly guesswork on the part of autosport -
i think the teams tend to be a little tightlipped about how much they actually do spend which makes me think there is alot of guesswork in the figures that the media concoct --

Hi Andy,

Yeah they went through the numbers pretty thoroughly. I think Autosport would be able to gather information us mere mortals could never imagine to be available.

Ferrari managed £80m from FOM last season as well, thats more than 3 of the bottom teams. It really puts the season into prospective, and shows how far the sport is from a level playing field

The Autosport figures would appear to be derived from an article by Dieter Rencken.

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/189521-dieter-renckens-article-on-f1-team-finances/

I have calculated the percentage return on each team budget from their prize money.

For the total prize money per team

Ferrari: = 24.94%
Red Bull = 27.27%
McLaren: = 28.14%
Mercedes: = 36.14%
Lotus: = 36.28%
Force India = 42.89%
Sauber: = 42.92%
Williams: = 38.18%
STR: = 52.14%
Caterham: = 0.00%
Marussia: = 16.73%

If we just count the part of the prize money that is earned from the final position in table (called column 2 money)

Ferrari: = 11.09%
Red Bull = 17.21%
McLaren: = 13.33%
Mercedes: = 21.33%
Lotus: = 18.05%
Force India = 19.20%
Sauber: = 16.59%
Williams: = 11.85%
STR: = 18.28%
Caterham: = 0.00%
Marussia: = 16.73%

"This very much upset Ferraris 'Horse whisper' column."

If it upset them because it is untrue that is fair enough, if it upset them because it is true they want to do some growing up.
Anybody upset by the truth needs to do some soul-searching.

I dislike the fact that Ferrari get paid extra for using, and when it suits them, abusing, effwun just to promote their product. I see no reason whatsoever for Ferrari to get paid a higher rate by the FIA than any other team.

I think if Ferrari pulled out and Alonso drove a third McLaren and Raikkonen a third Red Bull or Mercedes, after a few races no Ferrari's would have little effect on the sport.
But they know damned well that they would lose out.

On a personal level, to see Ferrari losing is (nearly) always good as far as I am concerned. It is a pity to see a super-star like Alonso wasting years in an inferior team, but then the fastest driver over one lap,(and by far the most entertaining out there) is doing exactly the same.

Perhaps the FIA should arrange who drives where at the end of each season, although seeing their attempts to "improve the show" with their dodgy tyre engineering shows them to be rather too inept.

I'm actually surprised at Ferrari and RedBull's figures. I expected higher ones.

Starting to worry about Alonso, he's not getting any younger and if the mercedes is competitive, they'll scupper any chances he has at a world title.

Mercedes and Ferrari take points off each other whilst RedBull have a car that with one driver they can win the constructors championship.

Let's hope the rule changes spice things up a bit because a repeat of this year will turn even more viewers off the sport.

Ferrari have a veto on all rule changes. If they do not believe that the minimum weight rules benefit them they will insist on the rule change.

Ferrari believe that it is an honour to drive for them and supply components. Ferrari probably expend more than the article stated but they simply refuse to pay their suppliers on the grounds that it is an honour to supply them.

The teams are now discussing giving drivers permanent car numbers for marketing purposes and some teams are objecting because an extra digit on the car number means less advertising on the car.

Welcome to this sport where people can state that Vettel is equal to Ascari.

"Welcome to this sport where people can state that Vettel is equal to Ascari. "

I am most certainly not a fan of his but to be fair to Vettel, when questioned about that, I can't remember if it was BBC or the other channel, he was very generous and honest and showed deep respect for Ascari's achievements, saying that they were not comparable, because the cars were much harder to drive, races were much longer, etc, etc.

I found his candour and knowledge both touching and illuminating, he appeared quite genuine, it was good to see such respect for the history of the sport from its youngest champion.

Good on him, I like drivers who know their history and Vettel seems to be becoming more aware of the past as he tries to perceive his place in motor racing history.

Who knows, he might want to try Indy one day, I would truly love to see that.

He also made a comment about, "I will go away for the Winter and consider what we have achieved", which I think is a maturity of attitude.

If he ever mentions, "the great Jim Clark", I may just become a fan!!

"I'm actually surprised at Ferrari and RedBull's figures. I expected higher ones."

Yes, so did I. With say, 500 employees dedicated to the Grand Prix team, that works out at £500,000 per team member.

Taking average wages as perhaps an equivelant of £35,000 (a figure plucked from the air as an average and bringing the total wages for the 500 est. staff to £17.5M) leaving a more staggering £235.5M spent on the consumables, plant, equipment and maintenance.

IIRC drivers salary's are paid by a separate company.

I work in an "industry" where the wages bill is 81% of the total budget.....

With limits on expenditure being voiced as a possibility I would not be the least surprised to find certain teams using "clever" accounting to disguise true costs.

It costs far more to build long-life engines than it does to produce scrappable ones.

Once you have the tools to make one engine, you have the tools to make one hundred engines, with the development cost spiralling downwards.

Another FIA blind alley.