Aguero, Van Persie and Rooney

spurtle

exactly, thats the point Ive been trying to get across

comment by spurtle (U1608)


posted 5 minutes ago

I know it's a popular trend on here in which to brag that one player is better than another, but I don't see how team achievements is that relevant when comparing individuals? Individual achievements such as Golden Boot sure but CL and PL medals etc?

I mean you'd have to be pretty thick to think Carrick is better than Gerrard based on winning more team silverware.
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You'd have to be pretty thick to take any of this seriously at all. I mean do you honestly think I'm being serious in any of this? You think having new hair is the basis for being the best striker? I'm treating Ferdango El Nino's comments with the contempt they deserve

BTW in answer to your point. Although it doesn't apply to any of the players being discussed, you can take PL and CL winners medals into account when a player has had a direct impact/influence in the team winning that medal. But those accolades are reserved for exceptional players only

comment by Fernando Torres aka el nino del Chelsea (U10019)
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I'm not saying he's past it after one game. Ancellotti said it in January when he started dropping him and now AVB is saying the same. You can't blame me for that.

Rooney scored a hat-trick on his debut against the champions of another league. Has Drogba? Has Torres? I think that answers that.

N-N-N-Nineteen - Your second paragraph almost indicates that you were taking it seriously after all.

Even in extreme cases with players like Messi, I wouldn't use team achievements to attempt to justify why one player is better than another. You can see how good a player is just by watching them, you don't need team silverware to back up claims. Not one player carries a whole team.

Torres has ripped Man Utd apart many times

comment by spurtle (U1608)
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Not at all Spurtle, I was only taking the point you made seriously.

Re: You can see how good a player is just by watching them.
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Unfortunately this can be very subjective so the idea of the impact they've had on their team's success in competitions is just a tangible way of backing it up.

Also, it's not the same as saying it's a one man team. You can have certain players who have had a direct influence on a team throughout a competition, but they haven't done it all on their own (although Maradona in Argentina 86 and at Napoli came pretty darn close).

N-N-N-Nineteen - If not by watching them, then by using individual stats such as assists and goals, which while not concrete have more relevance to a player comparison than the team accolades.

Saying someone carried a team because they scored a lot of goals, or using team silverware to rationalise why one player is better than another - however good the player might be, they're both spurious ways of going about justifying it.

Spurious? That's in your opinion Spurtle. All forms of stats are contentious and all arguments (including mine) are debatable. However, the trouble with stats is they won't necessarily tell you much about the performance of Scholes on our title winning season of 06-07. As I said earlier, by saying that he had a direct influence, was a key player in achieving that title, is only there to back this up.

Now you're using a term like "carry a team" which resembles the "one man team" notion again. Did Scholes carry the team, no he didn't. It was a team effort and there were other key players involved - including ofcourse, Ronaldo and Vidic. So to give a player recognition for the direct impact they've had on a trophy win doesn't take away from the team performance or from others that also had an impact. In fact what it is, is just another way of separating the likes of your Paul Scholes from your Nicky Butts when considering the medals won.

comment by Fernando Torres aka el nino del Chelsea (U10019)
posted 10 hours, 32 minutes ago
Torres has ripped Man Utd apart many times

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This is a myth. He did in a couple of games but in all, his record against United is 3 goals in 7 appearances against us. 3 goals in 591 minutes against us.

Let's not forget that Kuyt scored 3 in 90 minutes against us last season, does that make him better?

Isnt RVP's legs made from lollipop sticks, his Doctor must be making a good living , he is never fit.