Does Moyes Deserve An Apology??

Not sure the relevance of Guardiola to the class of 92.

Guardiola had actually been managing at some level and working in a very particular way of playing before he made the step up to Barca.

Incomparable to us. Nobody will recreate Fergie's legacy so it's pointless pining for the class of 92 trying to recreate something that isn't possible to recreate.

Not ill informed at all. I know your squad from last season, I don't think it was better than ours or Everton's.

Simple as.

I'm not pining for anything like, it's pretty obvious that those who worked under Fergie for their entire careers will stand the best chance of emulating him.

Guardiola managed the reserves.

Like I said, revisionism based on Moyes' tenure.

People were saying the same thing about Spurs' squad after the disaster that was AVB and Sherwood. Football is a fickle game.

I'm not just talking about that being illinformed, that's your opinion, one I don't agree with but it's your opinion all the same, but the rest of your comments on what has happened, particularly with Moyes not being to blame based off of two games with a new manager and a different squad, are ill-informed - you didn't watch every single one of our games and see what he was doing wrong, so to suggest it wasn't his fault is ill-informed when the rest of the United fan base could see what was going wrong.

It's like us all saying it wasn't Sherwood and AVB's fault, they just had a crap squad.

It's not obvious that those that worked under Fergie will have the best chance of emulating him because every single one of the players that have worked under him and gone into management have not come anywhere close, and the same will be true of the class of 92.

Guardiola managed Barca B which was at a much higher level than reserve football. It's also him actually managing the side with his methods something none of the class of 92 have done. Like I said, no relevance.

Regarding blame, a lot depends on what your expectations were to what he could realistically be held responsible for.

I watch enough United (my dad's a fan) to know you were boring, Fellaini was complete garbage, but he stuck with wingers and tried to play the Fergie way. I never once saw Fellaini up top for example like he was at Everton.

So results.. I genuinely think any manager aside from Fergie would've struggled to get top four with that squad. That's not a slight on your players as much as it is recognition of SAF before you get touchy.

It's obvious to me yes, of course it's not a given - we're talking about a phenomenon here - but they are the only ones that know how he did it.

Fair enough Guardiola managed the B team but your original point was "great players but managing a big club is different.." all I did was demonstrate that great players can translate into great managers for the club. Just because Giggs might have to have a go at managing a lower league side doesn't mean he can't or won't.. or will even have to. Maybe combining what he's learnt from Fergie with LVG's approach will do the job.

Surely there's a reason he was forced on the manager - your board must be thinking along the same lines.

He didn't try to play the Fergie way at all. This is what I mean about being ill-informed. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this because your comments are so far wide of the mark.

People said the same about Keane, Bruce, Robbo and Solksjaer.

Pep is an anomaly and managed at a club with a completely different ethos, and ethos that was idealistic in nature and therefore easier to translate for a player that didn't know anything else.

Fergie under United were completely different to Barca and the genius of Fergie was his ability to adapt as a manager as well as the character he had having a huge affect on his teams - this is something I don't think you can simply learn by being a player under Fergie, as Bruce, Robbo and Keane have showed, as well as Kidd, Quieroz and McClaren being mooted as potentially amazing managers from working with him, and why I have no doubts whatsoever that the class of 92 will not emulate Fergie in the slightest and that they aren't best placed to do so.

Giggs even said he was overawed at managing United in four, essentially dead rubber, games. Scholes doesn't have the personality. He'll unlikely never be a manager, to be honest. These are the only two that would likely get the job because of their reputation. Giggs wasn't forced on anyone. He was kept as a link between the club and the new management - LVG especially does this at every club.

So when you consider that, Guardiola isn't relevant, and a world class manager with the personality and ability to make United into a top side are the ones that are best placed to emulate Fergie - and even then they'll fall way short.

Fair enough, you made your point on Guardiola.. its a good point about the importance of personality too, something you can't recreate.

If Giggs was picked by LVG all the better for his prospects, however unlikely it is I do think he's the natural successor.. he'll just have to do it in a slightly different way.. to be fair the world's a different place now to when Fergie set out.

I stand by my point that the fall from grace was inevitable though, that Moyes was harshly judged, and that we can see just how weak your squad was - not just from Moyes' tenure, or a few games this season, but how much you're having to spend on it to get anywhere near those above you.

Short of a couple more big name signings coming in i still have you in a battle for fourth.. even if you don't have many games this season you've got players and manager to gel, and confidence to rebuild.

Fair play. I agree a fall from grace was inevitable but not to that extent and that's why I don't think Moyes was harshly judged. The most frustrating thing about Moyes was not just the results but that he didn't appear to be implementing any style or strategy for the team, which is why his position became untenable.

We need a rebuild, of course, and the players need to gel and the rebuilding of confidence in the most crucial part of it.

I'm still of the opinion that this season shouldn't have any bearing on what Moyes did last season as the squad is very different and we are coming from a very different position in terms of expectation.

LVG should be judged on what he does with this side and how he gets the team to react to last season as well as implementing his system.

I think for that reason, unless he makes a massive cockup, he'll be afforded more time than Moyes because of the different positions they've come from as well as the credentials of the two managers - this relates to my point before about Moyes not looking to implement a style that can move the team forward.

Anyway, good debate. Sorry if I came across as rude by calling you ill-informed, wasn't my intention, I just massively disagreed with a lot of the points about what Moyes was doing.

I agree a fall from grace was inevitable but not to that extent and that's why I don't think Moyes was harshly judged. The most frustrating thing about Moyes was not just the results but that he didn't appear to be implementing any style or strategy for the team, which is why his position became untenable.

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To be fair the extent of the fall is dependent on how you rate the squad he left behind. I saw it as lacking in crucial areas and unbalanced in the extreme, so it was less of a surprise to see you struggling for me.

You're right of course - it's not fair to judge Moyes on what van Gaal is doing, too much has changed. A part of me wonders what SAF thought of his 'chosen one' not lasting the season.. has he given his opinion?

This debate has sparked from a fairly light hearted comment by myself, to be fair you've come across well and underlined exactly how big a task your new manager has got on his hands.

Best of luck

Fergie's kept schtum.

Cheers mate. Good luck for the season too.