hi guys
just read the nigel roebuck piece below and i must admit it slightly irritated me as it bought home to me what i have thought for some time that because of ferrari"s inability to produce a machine that even resembles anything competitive alonso will never fulfill his legacy of true F1 greatness
The real greats of our sport of which there have only ever been a mere handful since F1 began will never be forgotten and there names will still be whispered with awe long after all of us have dropped of our respective perch -
For me alonso with his achievements in some of his shameful red noddy cars has earned such status yet it truly saddens me to think that he will never receive such plaudits from the F1 historians that will inevitably lend there credibility in future polls or whatever when the spaniard finally turns his last wheel in anger -
As to why ferrari have produced so many dismal cars for the last 6 yrs there has been much conjecture and none of us will ever really understand the reasons why , but from my point of view when you have the vast resources and the massive financial muscle of ferrari there has to be incompetence or arrogance or probably both in there hierarchy to have there many flaws so clearly exposed for so long and in so doing have very likely robbed a truly great driver of the legacy he so richly deserves -
anyway fellow f1 aficionados have a perusal of the piece below and give your deliberations if you feel so inclined --
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/nigel-newsletter/what-will-alonso-do/
shame on you ferrari
posted on 30/9/14
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 11 hours, 10 minutes ago
I'm sure all the current drivers in F1 give feedback to their engineers. The difference between the exceptional ones and the also-rans is the amount of detail.
The also-rans probably say "I'm not getting enough downforce around xyz corner" and let the engineers try to work it out.
Whereas the really good guys will explain exactly what they were doing, where they were on the track etc, and compare it with how it was earlier in the session with different setups.
They may well not be aerodynamacists, but they are good analysts of what is happening to the car under different conditions.
Some drivers are excellent in their analysis yet when it comes to racing, they just haven't got the race-craft (Or they haven't got enough backing to pay for the drive, as with PdR) and end up being test drivers.
Well they used to.... the ban on in season testing has put paid to that concept.
And there is another problem Ferrari haven't yet come to terms with. Lack of in season testing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeh i hear what you are saying go cel , i just find it completely impossible to believe that alonso after 14 yrs in F1 and arguably the best driver to have come along after prost and senna is incapable of giving detailed feed back to his engineer , it just does not add up for me on any level --
agree with you about the lack of testing hurting ferrari more than anybody else mainly because they were unique in having there own test track at the time that they could willy nilly test every solitary component of the car to absolute perfection --
to be honest there have been so many stories of lack of wind tunnel correlation , maranello out of date that in fairness might have some truth attached to it as they have a new facility for next yrs car , whatever the reasons there is little doubt they have under achieved these last few yrs --
posted on 30/9/14
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire (U9612)
posted 11 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 11 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by M.U.D.D - Luke Shaw makes me throb with desire(U9612)
posted 1 minute ago
Martial you appear once again to not understand the sport you claim to be an expert in. I would suggest some research into the career of Schumacher.
Surely you watched his career along with Senna
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what about him ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't you watch his career?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeh i did watch his career manx
---- i am sure there is a point lurking in there somewhere manx but as yet i have not quite mastered telepathy so you are going to have to enlighten me as to what it is
posted on 30/9/14
q. why hasnt Alonso forced his way to a better drive?
posted on 1/10/14
comment by Welshy (U1348)
posted 11 hours, 4 minutes ago
q. why hasnt Alonso forced his way to a better drive?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think a lot of teams know he comes with baggage so are unwilling to take a risk with him. McLaren though need to do something drastic because they could go the way of Williams in the noughties
posted on 1/10/14
In many ways Hamilton and Alonso have similar problems, they both come with baggage. Hamilton seems easy to rile (although he's come back from setbacks countless times this season), and Alonso just seems to upset everyone where ever he goes. The thing is though they are both able to drag almost the impossible out of poor cars. If they can be well managed then they should be top of your list!
I don't rate Vettel as highly but I still think he's top class, he also has a far calmer head on him that Alonso or Hamilton. Everyone expected the toys to go out of the pram this season, they were waiting for him to crack. It's not happened, he's handled himself with dignity and class.
I think McLaren would be unable to handle Alonso for any length of time, Vettel may be a little slower but he'd help the team dynamics considerably more than Alonso.
posted on 1/10/14
comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 6 hours, 16 minutes ago
In many ways Hamilton and Alonso have similar problems, they both come with baggage. Hamilton seems easy to rile (although he's come back from setbacks countless times this season), and Alonso just seems to upset everyone where ever he goes. The thing is though they are both able to drag almost the impossible out of poor cars. If they can be well managed then they should be top of your list!
I don't rate Vettel as highly but I still think he's top class, he also has a far calmer head on him that Alonso or Hamilton. Everyone expected the toys to go out of the pram this season, they were waiting for him to crack. It's not happened, he's handled himself with dignity and class.
I think McLaren would be unable to handle Alonso for any length of time, Vettel may be a little slower but he'd help the team dynamics considerably more than Alonso.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
think we are all missing something here nsix
---admittedly alonso and ron dennis never became best buds during 07 but i am struggling to think how the spaniard miffed off minardi , renault and ferrari
posted on 1/10/14
He comes across as an abrasive character in any case
posted on 2/10/14
You're right Martial, I can't think of a single other time a team has got miffed with Alonso.
A team boss certainly would never chastise him, especially not on his birthday........
posted on 2/10/14
Felipe Massa believes his former team mate Fernando Alonso knew of Renault’s plan to help him win the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix by causing a deliberate crash.
Massa lost the race to Alonso after Nelson Piquet Jnr, driving the second Renault, deliberately crashed his car on lap 14. This caused a Safety Car period which propelled Alonso to the front of the field.
Massa, who parted ways with Ferrari at the end of last year, said Alonso “knew everything” about the plan when asked about it in a recent interview for Autosport. “But he would never tell me,” Massa added.
The details of Renault’s plan to cause the crash came to light almost 12 months after the race. The FIA banned Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds from the sport for their involvement, but accepted Alonso’s denial he had prior knowledge of the plan.
Symonds has since returned to F1 and is now chief technical officer at Williams, who Massa has joined this year. “For sure, I will discuss it with him,” said Massa of Symonds, “but I am sure he is not the most important guy in what happened”.
“Sometimes people pay more than they need to,” Massa added. “I know how it works, these situations, in F1 but I will definitely talk to him.”
Massa, who has previously likened the race to a fixed football match, failed to score after a pit lane mishap during the Safety Car period triggered by Piquet Jnr’s crash. The points he lost to championship rival Lewis Hamilton that day ultimately cost him the 2008 title.
posted on 2/10/14
Renault’s Pat Symonds always pointed out the Alonso’s greatest weakness was that he couldn’t handle being beaten by his team mate. It didn’t happen much when he was paired with Giancarlo Fisichella, but alongside the feisty Hamilton at McLaren, Alonso has been under pressure.
He’s reacted by criticising the team, usually through the Spanish media. Even after this weekend’s cooling down meeting with the team over the Hungaroring affair he came out and told the press that he wasn’t given enough backing from McLaren after he claims he helped improve the car’s performance by over half a second a lap.