Too much negativity

comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
Just because you didn't win the title doesn't make it a failure. You had no right to expect a title because you aren't/weren't an established title challenging team.

I suppose the fact some may see the inability to win a title as a failure shows how well he did in raising expectation.


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Depends how you put it into context. Some of us have had to wait 25 years and it looks like we might have to wait even longer. 18 titles but we've never won the Premier League.

We had no right to expect?! Why ever not, pray? So we give up expecting, do we? I see. My bad.

Rafa wasn't a failure but he wasn't a roaring success either.

He bought a hell of a lot of dross the same as Rodgers apparently has. Generally he did well when he spent big, but that wasn't always the case (Keane, Aquilani, Babel) even Kuyt wasn't really a success as intended as he was brought to be a striker and score goals.

Rafa was very good at setting up teams to be difficult to beat but was also over-cautious at times when more freedom may have brought better results (we had something like 22 0-0 draws in his tenure).

He is a great cup manager but I think his style in the PL makes it difficult to be successful without being the biggest spender, and he isn't going to be the biggest spender with us in the same league as the oil rich clubs.

Rafa doesn't fit how FSG work at all, so I don't see any chance of him coming back while they are owners and no amount of fans pining is going to change that.

They only went for Kenny because they were so new in the job and they needed a bit of stability and to win the fans over for a while.

If they decide Rodgers has had his chance, they will look for another young, progressive manager who works with young talent.

Righteous

I agree some of Rafa's buys weren't great but when you look at who he wanted and who he got and who brought some of the players. When Rafa identified a player he very rarely got his first choice.

But when he did they where good players!

Reina
Alonso
Torres
Mascherano


When he spent big he usually got it right and he got a lot of stick for some players he never wanted.

Robbie Keane!

No my point is that you shouldn't expect a title because you weren't an established title winning team. You had a great season in 09, and perhaps you can see it as failure you didn't go on to win it in the end given the position you got yourselves into (same as last season).

However, you weren't one of the top teams in England that was expected to win and challenge for titles. Chelsea were the other side after us that were in that position, but they had a very poor start under Scolari and so it was difficult for them to get back into contention, and you punched above your weight.

You can talk about 18 titles all you like. But it's not been since the 80's that Liverpool have been in a position to expect titles and title challenged year on year. A bitter pill to swallow but the reality of your standing in English football over the last couple of decades.

If you're realistic about that then Rafa did pretty well all things considered - regardless of your inability to win the title.

All managers can say 'I wanted this player or that player'

At the end of the day the best managers get the best out of whatever players they have, even if they weren't their first choice signings. In very few jobs are they lucky enough to have always get their first choice signings.

Its an easy excuse after not meeting expectations to say 'it wasn't my fault I didn't get the players I wanted'. That argument should end as soon as you get whoever you do get. Get on with the job with the players you have.

Agree with that but Rafa got a lot right!

That's true, righteous.

I do wonder, however, whether Rafa would have got more of his targets/done better in the market than Kenny and Brendan have with that money.

Obviously your position in the footballing ladder had fallen but Rafa does have a bit more gravitas as a coach compared to Rodgers and Kenny. That could have helped get you back up quicker.

All speculation, of course, and massively engrained in hindsight so we can't really make that argument in favour of Rafa.

I know he did, but I think he is overrated by a lot of Liverpool fans. I think he was quite lucky in 04/05 and its that that really has created his legend.

He isn't in the same league as Paisley, Shankly or Dalglish IMO, but he was a good Liverpool manager.

Nobody will ever be in the same league as bob and shanks!

Benitez tactically compared to Rodgers was a genius and let's not forget Benitez had to put up with the cowboys and 2 inept CE's!

He had his failings but he was a great manager and if he'd been able to spend £20m + £20m + £25m + £10m + £12m on players in one window he'd have got better than BR did!

Agree with that last paragraph.

He wouldn't have had us in 2nd place last season though, IMO.