What is the Biggest Contributory Factor?

"Levy is no fool, no matter what Don says, and he would not have got rid of a manager who had done so well for us unless he had a damned good reason."

Losing the CL prize + gob = P45.
As I have always said, neither in isolation IMHO was enough to result in the boot. But Arry sadly managed to concoct the perfect mix of both.

grand,

I think the Bale curse was that we hadn’t won a game where he started – not that he hadn’t featured in one – so bringing him on at 3-0 up would not have changed anything. Plus I would not respect a manager who brought on a player other than for tactical reasons. This is the Premiership, not the U9s Sunday league.

And I’m sorry but you cannot seriously believe Harry just showed Bale the teams sheet and let him get on with playing in a different position without any instructions, coaching or any input whatsoever. Again, this is the Premiership - not the U9s Sunday league. Of course Bale takes most of the credit himself for what he has achieved – and it would be very daft to say he had nothing to do with it – but if you can’t give credit to Harry for changing Bale’s direction in football then you’re never going to give credit for anything.

And I cannot understand how Harry disrespected the club by wanting a job that he considered to be the pinnacle of his career, whilst steering us to our highest ever Premiership position (only matched by Harry himself 2 seasons previous). AVB said he wanted to manage somewhere else “very soon” (somewhere in Brazil I believe it was) after just a few months in charge but he never got labeled disrespectful or received any such criticism. Yet one wanted a job that was the pinnacle of his career, the other just any old job in Brazil.

I’m very much pro-Levy but he has clearly made mistakes during his reign, and sacking Harry has to be right up there. If everyone puts their personal thoughts of each manager aside and just look at the football side of things, it is clear that we have declined since Harry was sacked. I’m not interested in how likable the manager’s personality is or how they come across on tv, I just care about what I see on the pitch and the progress of the club – and for pure footballing reasons - it was a mistake to sack Harry.

Edin,

You claim it is a “complete lie” to say Modric was considered a flop, yet even by the stats you provide it doesn’t sound good.

Available for 12
Injured for 5*
Played 7
Played well in 3 (lost in at least 2 (Boro and Sunderland). Who was the other game against?)
Played less than half hour in 2 (of the 7)

*I don’t recall him being injured for 5 games but this only validates my point if anything.

So, even when you’re trying to give a pro-comment, which means you (as we all do) are likely to be a tad biased, you can only admit to him having 3 good games. You also claim he played less than 30 minutes in 2 games (aside from the 3 you mention). This is not evidence of a flourishing signing – but instead points to a struggling one who cannot find form.

As we know, he proved all his doubters wrong in the end, but this only became reality after Harry was appointed. I’m not claiming Harry made Modric as a player – just that he inherited a player nowhere near the finished product he was when he left for Real Madrid.

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The fundamental issue here Chicken, is you didn't research it properly. Ramos didn't have 12 league games at our club. He had 8. The 12 games I was talking about was in all competitions.

Harry was our manager from the Bolton game onwards. Not Ramos.

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Also the 'lie' comment was directed towards me believing that you didn't actually think anyone labelled Modric as a flop. You just used it as a strawman argument to back up your 'Arry justification.


I have never discredited what Arry did with Modric. He fumbled a bit about with Modric till he found something that worked, but when he realised it worked he built a team around Luka and helped him become the player he is today.

Fundamentally the biggest issue here anyway was the fact that Modric was never labelled a flop, not what games he did or didn't play in. ~7 games is never enough to label a player a flop.

comment by Chronic - 100% behind Poch (U3423)
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
chicken is so predictable. its the same every time.

Sherwood's willy in one hand, harry's cucumber in the other.

its a bit tiresome now
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Edin,

Okay, well I assumed you meant just league games – so I apologise for that misunderstanding and my lack of research .

Firstly, if a new signing (especially a record one as I think he was??) is struggling to find form, fairly, unfairly or “bizarrely”, they get labeled a flop. It’s no different to how we would use this word towards a signing of another club that wasn’t working out.

Anyhow, even by your own investigations that he featured in 9, did not complete 4 of the 9 (for whatever reason), and was injured for 3, I think anyone would agree that the signing hadn’t been successful at this point. As such, if this had been a new signing for Arsenal, West Ham or anyone else, IMO they would be labeled a flop at that moment in time. This doesn’t mean they will always be remembered as a flop signing because as we know, players often flourish later on – and this often happens under a change of manager – which is what happened when Harry took over.

As for saying 7 games isn’t enough to label someone a flop, well if you break your transfer record on a player, and the returns are poor after the club has played 12 games (as above), then at that moment in time – at the time a judgment is made – the review of the player is going to be a bad one. Now we are in the future, we wouldn’t say he was a flop for 7 games then come good – but when Harry took over he would have been known as a player struggling to find form or live up to his record signing status (known in football terms as “a flop” ).

Please take note, I only brought this up because earlier in the thread someone made it sound like Harry was almost over-achieving by finishing 4th because he inherited Bale, Modric and later on VDV, but I just think he deserves more credit than that because he still had to put all the pieces together, and managed to do it pretty well. Whilst VDV was an excellent signing, he was what I would call “a luxury”, and would have been difficult to accommodate at times.

Good times though .