Looks like it might be Cillesen

He just had a bad season. Hardly something that was unfixable. You're being far too dramatic . If anything saf left the club in a worse state because of a poor and ageing squad masked by the brilliance of RVP.

As we see now the vast majority of that squad saf left has been shipped out. Fair play to LVG for doing so but Moyes would have done the same. Any manager taking over from saf knew there was major surgery needed at the club.

As for the 'whining' , I've admitted I was a bit silly with Moyes. Doesn't mean I can't voice my valid opinions about Lvg. Unless you're one of those people that doesn't accept people can change with experience.

Do you think Moyes would have done the same as LVG has done regarding shipping out players? I can't see it myself. I don't think that he had the mentality to get rid of the likes of RVP. The job was too big for him in my opinion.

Robb, did Moyes leave us in a good state or not?

You can voice your opinions about lvg, I said at least wait for the ball to be kicked.

For example, you tipped Valencia to start ahead of Darmian

It may have been Elvis but we'll never know. I do think he would have shipped out rvp. Imo he bought Mata to play behind Rooney and wanted to play a 4231. He wasn't stupid, he knew just like most us knew what needed to be done.

I just think he wasn't mentally strong enough to take over the saf side and instantly make the changes that were needed. I personally think he would have grown into the role but that's just an opinion.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 minute ago
Robb, did Moyes leave us in a good state or not?

You can voice your opinions about lvg, I said at least wait for the ball to be kicked.

For example, you tipped Valencia to start ahead of Darmian
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No I didn't . I said that lvg said Valencia would be our number one right back this season. But as he hadn't played in pre season i knew he wouldn't start on saturday and you can go through all my predicted team sheets if you like to confirm that.

If we're talking about predictions you said that Blind wouldn't play and that DDG would never wanna join Real because of his atletico past.

As for what state Moyes left us in its hard to say. He left lvg with a Europe free season on which to bed in his ideas and also less expectation. Lvg spent a lot of money and only had a top 4 target. Hardly a bad state.

Finishing 7th in the league after inheriting the champions, losing the dressing room and being out of Europe is not a bad state.

Fascinating

The point with Robb is

The lesson he learned from the moyes tenure is that he will no longer give managers time because in football today managers don't get time.

Is that righ Robb ?

I find it odd. At times last season we played better football than we did under Moyes. Surely that, coupled with the fact LVG managed to get us into 4th, despite terrible luck with injuries, would point to giving him more time. I realise that Robb isn't saying that we should sack him now, but he isn't really giving him time to actually show us what he can do. Whilst we may not all agree with LVG's strategy/philosophy, we can all admit that he has been consistent in his belief that the team was not balanced. As a result he has had to play formations and perhaps styles that he'd rather not. Lets at least wait and see how he/the team gets on now we have a more balanced squad.

Elvis, to be fair to Moyes we played some good stuff under him too. The Newcastle 4-0 away win. Both ties against Leverkusen. The Villa away game. There were good games.

Like you say, I'm not saying sack him now. Far from it. But I am concerned as are many people about the style of play and the decisions made. Maybe he'll do well and I hope he does because believe it or not, I am a united supporter. But just because I supported one manager past when people thought acceptable doesn't mean I can't voice concerns about another manager.

In life it's natural to learn from your mistakes. Remember, Moyes was the first ever manager I had to back in his first season. I was 6 when saf took over so I didn't know what a tough first season was and when to back or not. With Moyes I learnt a lesson. Lvg has some good qualities which is why I'm giving him time.

But as someone who is only here for 3 years I'd be expecting a lot better than what we're seeing now by the end of this season. Hopefully we will.

Expectations will be greater this season but the minimum target will still be a top 4 finish.