The 4-4-1-1 just isn't the best use of the players at LVG's disposal and the game on Friday highlighted why.
Carrick is a superb deep-lying playmaker/holding player when you give him options, in the 4-4-1-1 system and with the personnel choices of LVG, the options generally aren't there for him to make forward passes (due to the nature of the system is best options are usually backwards and sideways or long passes).
Schneiderlin is clearly an aggressive midfielder, the 4-4-1-1 shape where he's constantly interchanging with Carrick in a disciplined 2 man midfield doesn't suit him. A pressing midfield would get the best out of him because he's a ball winner as well as a ball player.
The double substitution brought on Schweinsteiger and Herrera with immediate improvement.
Carrick had 38 touches of the ball in one hour, Schweinsteiger had 40 in half an hour. Schneiderlin had 0.8 touches per minute before the subs and 0.93 per minute after them.
The key player in midfield however is Herrera, he presses the ball effectively, retains possession effectively and can make the difference at the top end of the pitch in terms of goals and assists, the perfect player to have as the most forward in the 3.
Given Carrick's age and Schweinsteigers fitness issues i think a 4-1-2-3 shape with the pair rotating the role of holding player/deep-lying playmaker, shielded by the pressing of Schneiderlin and Herrera (who between them have sufficient athleticism, intelligence and technical quality) gives United the perfect platform both defensively and going forward.
United must go 4-3-3
posted on 15/8/15
I think a midfield 3 of Morgan, Herrera with Carrick and Bastian rotated depending on what we need is the answer.
posted on 15/8/15
The problem with that system last season is that it was far too heavily reliant on an ageing and increasingly injury-prone Carrick.
It's a role very few players can do as effectively -not even Schwein/Schneid.
Just a thought, but perhaps a reason we've dropped it.
posted on 15/8/15
Nothing wrong with 4231 or 4411, many of the world's top teams have played that formation recently and been very successful.
But as you said, based on the players we have, 433 is far superior.
We simply do not have a good number 10 (never mind a world class one). Depay, Januzaj and even Herrera aren't great number 10s. Moyes and now LVG have very rarely played Mata there so clearly he isn't as good there as people keep making out.
What we do have is an amazing variety of CMs. A midfield 3 of Morgan, Carrick/Bastian and Herrera offers everything you could want from your midfield. I literally have no idea why LVG can't see this
posted on 15/8/15
I really don't get all this Herrera mad love.
He's a decent midfielder... Nothing more. He has the habit of giving the ball away, which I don't like, but he's good.
Not really bothered whether he starts or not.
Need to see more of Basti before I make up my mind on him. Coming off the bench is very different from starting. Imaging the intensity Spurs showed in the first 20 mins at OT. Basti would have been chasing shadows.
For now Carrick starts ahead of him... till he shows he can keep up with the pace of the PL
posted on 15/8/15
PS I don't care what formation we use... As long as it's effective!!
PPS I hope Fellani's keeping fit... I like the option he gives us. Would like to see him in Belgium...
posted on 15/8/15
comment by Smalling_Jones_ (U16290)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nothing wrong with 4231 or 4411, many of the world's top teams have played that formation recently and been very successful.
But as you said, based on the players we have, 433 is far superior.
We simply do not have a good number 10 (never mind a world class one). Depay, Januzaj and even Herrera aren't great number 10s. Moyes and now LVG have very rarely played Mata there so clearly he isn't as good there as people keep making out.
What we do have is an amazing variety of CMs. A midfield 3 of Morgan, Carrick/Bastian and Herrera offers everything you could want from your midfield. I literally have no idea why LVG can't see this
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We do have a world class number 10, his name is Juan Mata.
posted on 15/8/15
We simply do not have a good number 10 (never mind a world class one). Depay, Januzaj and even Herrera aren't great number 10s.
----
That's funny cos one of LVG's first comments when he took over the squad was that we had to many No. 10s... Now we don't even have one
As Kung fu says, Mata is a pretty darn good number 10. Gave the ball away so many times yesterday though... Wanted to shoot him!
posted on 15/8/15
I agree, Mata looks like the ideal number 10 but Moyes and now LVG has very rarely played him there. These guys see him train every day so there must be a reason.
Even then, I'd much rather have Herrera play as a third CM with license to go forward than to have Mata play just behind Rooney. Just seems to offer more balance and will allow our wingers to cut inside more often and be more aggressive offensively
posted on 15/8/15
Mata can't play no.10 in this side.
For Mata to be effective he needs movement around him and needs it early, United don't really have the players to make playing Mata at no.10 a smart option (it needs to be a compelling argument to sacrifice all the benefits of the 4-1-2-3 system I suggested in the OP to accomodate Mata in the middle).
The harsh reality is that Mata's lack of physical qualities and the lack of movement around him would lead to him repeatedly losing possession under pressure (it even happen often from the wide position he occupied on Friday).
If United choose to play a no.10 then that should be Herrera as he's quick enough on his feet, skillful enough and aggressive enough to hold his own under pressure and retain possession with moments of creativity to go with it.
However it would make no sense to play a 2 man midfield behind Herrera when the same players can be used in a much better way.
posted on 15/8/15
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9948565/james-cooper-witnesses-another-baffling-show-from-louis-van-gaal-on-david-de-gea