McClaren - Dead man walking

666 - I asked 2 questions which, as usual, you have failed to answer.

Did our defence improve under McClaren?

Did any players improve under his management/ coaching more than they might have under Clough (or any other manager)?

As evidence, I give you a certain Richard Keogh.

Some on here are happy to blame him for every goal we conceded last season and the one before.
Some think he is useless and that Clough should never have bought him.
Or that he isnt good enough to play for us let alone captain the side.
Did he improve under McClaren?

You have often said not, yet MCClaren continued to (a) play Keogh (b) keep him as captain.

Clemet has come in, seen the error of McClarens ways and taken the arm band away from Keogh. He has also, quite clearly, been working on defensive matters.

The result is that (a) Keogh is transformed into a regular MotM and (b) our defence is conceding 0.75 gpg against 1.22 gpg last season.


McClaren had a certain style of play, which was certainly entertaining. But, if success is measured against results and position in the table, ultimately it wasn't successful.

Whilst I have not blamed him entirely for what happened last season (because the players must take some of the blame and I would argue the supporters were slightly impatient at times, which doesn't help), the fact is that McClarens job was to get us promoted and he failed.

Had things not started well for McClaren at Derby I think it would have gone downhill pretty quickly. His career has been marked by an inability to turn things around when they start heading the wrong way. He was very good at maintaining a head of steam in his first season and riding the crest of the wave of confidence that enveloped the club. We had nothing really to lose that season and the apparently small touches he made to the tactics worked wonders. Once adversity struck last season he seemed not really to know what to do to remedy the situation and it seems to be the same now at Newcastle. Managers have different strengths: Clough was good in difficult times, keeping the team together and battling through, but lacked the ability to take us to the next level.

It is always difficult to say whether McClaren improved certain players or whether they started playing better because of the confidence that comes with results. I thought that the defensive organisation improved immediately when McClaren was first appointed but many of the players who initially improved went backwards again last season, largely because of the lack of a settled line-up at the back and in midfield. Peeder's right ultimately - McClaren should have got us promoted last season and not to do so was failure.

Chris - "The list is endless, certainly in the first season. Grant, Martin, Bryson, Forsyth for starters"

In the first season! FFS!

Grant has got worse since he came back not better. He made a series of howlers last year.

Bryson - improved? McClaren kept dropping him - even 666 complained about it. 1/3 of Brysons 44 games last season were from the bench and he scored 5 goals. Season before, 16 goals from 49 games, just 2 as a sub.

Martin is Martin. He hasnt improved his game at all. 1st season under McClaren 25 goals from 51 games, second season 21 from 42. Both season

And as for Forsyth - I am amazed you brought his name up at all. I have never seen a player fall apart like he did last season when the going got tough.

McLaren only brought in 2 players who improved the team, Wisdom and Ibe.

I agree with Peeder.

Compare Forsyth of 13/14 with the makeshift left midfielder who joined the season before.

Compare Martin now with the ineffective non scoring striker under Clough.

You are just comparing the last 2 months of last season to the entirity of Clough's reign

VCRam, how come McClaren did considerably better than Clough then and indeed so far, better than Clement?

Experience?

I think it's a bit of a fallacy to say that we declined only after the 'headturning' incident last season. I saw some rubbish between August and Christmas, as well.
I'm much more optimistic with what I've seen so far this season under Clem, than I was a year ago.

McClaren did well when he came to us and we started playing really good football, it was a pleasure to go to the matches.

But he started bringing in players who were not as good as the ones they replaced, like Shotton for Buxton. He managed to lose the play off game against 10 men with his odd tactics.

Then last season we never really got going and in January he had his head turned by a very fickle club, whose supporters are even more deluded than me.

McClaren is in a mess now which many of us predicted, I don't blame anyone getting a better job but I wish he had been honest with us.

Ha ha ha Mac, you will be on the dole by bonfire night.

I recently got lambasted for remarks I made after we lost in the cup by Portsmouth.basically being told I didn't know what I was talking about.it seems to me many of the posters on here fall into the same category judging by most remarks over the decline in results from January to the end of the season,i seem to remember we suffered the same fate as forest the season before.we like forest suffered from an injury crisis that caused the change in fortune. and the squad could not take up the challenge.it was in part.but only a small part due to poor substitutions(I think he started reading nigel cloughs book on substitutions) and maybe he decided to leave because so many fans turned against him.iwish he had been able to sort things out and stay.clemants has still a long way to go to prove himself yet