I'm bored and have wasted my last day off work. Why don't we kick off another Lions-esque discussion? Based on the past month (performances and injuries), which players from the 4 countries would make it into a Lions team for this RWC, and how far do you think they could get?
I'll start by saying I've only seen one of the Scots' games. I've not seen enough of their players to force themselves to the front in any of the positions I've chosen, but possibilities could be in hooker, second row, no.8, scrum half or maybe pushing for an outside back berth, or a place on the bench.
Corbisiero
Hartley
Jones
Lawes/Gray
POC
SOB
Warburton
Heaslip
Phillips
Hook
Ashton
Roberts
BOD/Tuilagi???
North
Armitage
Some of these people have only had limited gametime, but are a step above the rest of the class (Adam Jones) or in Ashton's case I think he could be a fantastic option for my RWC lions team. I really didn't think I'd be including Mike Phillips either, but I couldn't think of anyone else who has put their hand up, and to be fair he did have a very impressive game against England that has stuck in my mind. Some of these I may just plain have gotten wrong - I cant follow all 15 players every minute they're on the pitch, and I certainly couldn't remember everything if I was able to. Please feel free to chip in with your two pennies worth
Depending on the run in, I'd like to think this team could cast aside SA and everyone else lower in the rankings, but I wouldn't bet on them beating Oz, or NZ.
Just for the sake of it...
posted on 30/8/11
gecko
No real issue with most of your team save the half back positions. 10... is that Hook i see in there? sry mate not on your life.
And 9 i have never rated Philips, i think you want a classic nine with a good wristy pass not a guy who takes a bunch of steps before he fires a fairly slow pass out.
Just to clarify i rate hook among the best around but not as a ten. no way. he's a hell of a centre in particular as a play-maker at 12 he has consistently impressed me.
The Lawes and gray battle at 4 is a real though call. they are both outstanding talents. but i would give the nod to Lawes. I just like the cut of his jib :D
posted on 30/8/11
HMMurdoch - I think it'd be even harsher on taking SOB out to include Croft. I think SOB would keep Croft on the bench. SOB could possibly displace Heaslip at 8 though...
Ding, yes I would love to find a better scrumhalf than Mike Phillips, and although you've described a good 9 to take his spot can you suggest someone from the last month's showing? :P Maybe one of the Scots - I didn't see their games and would normally pick Mike Blair but he's looked off the boil last season.
Also, yeah, I've had to go for Hook at 10. Wilko also had a good game against Wales, but then was a little hit'n'miss against Ireland. It's just a case of there being no other standout candidates. ROG has a case of showing touches of class, but then playing absolutely bonkers pants (the game on the weekend a fine example), and Sexton hasn't nailed down a starting spot ahead of ROG (even taking into account his flaky form). Again, the only other candidates for the 10 jersey are Scots (and I'm not sold on their quality yet). So I've plumped for Hook who was given a chance to show his talents and took it nicely.
Ding - your call on BOD vs Tuilagi? Who is left to get the bench spot?
posted on 30/8/11
Mate i will drop your jaw on the floor now with my next comment. So to answer your question...
10 Sexton 12 Hook 13 Tuilagi
no BOD right now hes a bench player. Not because hes not good enough we all know thats not the case but because he simply is not fit and amazingly! he has stated about a week ago that these days it takes mi at-least 4 games i the league before he gets up to speed properly. The irish player well-fair program which has seen him play 50 or 60% of the games this season has literally been more of a hindrance then a help to BOD.
Also, mate at best the ten position is up for grabs in ireland but Sexton is now the main man, he did not show much in the last few games mainly because DK in his infinite wisdom (stupidity) paired him with Tomas O'Leary TWICE! like in fairness that would make Dan carter look bad.
posted on 30/8/11
Sheridan
Hartley
Jones
Lawes
POC
SOB
Croft
Heaslip
Phillips
Wilkinson
Ashton
Roberts
BOD
Bowe
Foden
No way could you put Corbisiero before Sheridan - thats insane
Lawes and POC awesome
Croft is too good to be left out - someone has to make way - I dont care who
JW has had some rough years with Injury keeping his career stop start - in 2003 nobody in the world doubted he was the best there is - he is now finding his top form again and playing out of his skin for Toulon - voted best foreign player in France last year - the bloke is a world cup winner and an excellent playmaker and defender FFS
No o ne can argue with BOD and Roberts - Manu has potential but come on .... he has played 2 games
posted on 30/8/11
lol Lydneyian feel strongly about JW mate to be fair i would agree if a lions was being put together now he would be the front runner for the 10 spot.
Currant form tho BOD mmmm im not sure if its with out personal country bias i would not pick him. believe me thats a massive call for me to make. He's my hero, and i believe the best ever outside centre if not one of the best players the game has ever seen, but right now in this moment he not fit. he having problems.
posted on 30/8/11
I've been more impressed with Corbisiero than Sheridan to be honest. I think Corbisiero will be (accepting he may not be the finished article just yet) a much better scrummager, and gets around more in the loose. I'll accept I've seen Sheridan have a barnstorming run (maybe two, but I only remember one), but I've also seen Sheridan spend alot of time carrying ineffectively and generally just being a useless lump. Saying that I know Corbs had a few howlers with his handling. Is the loosehead jersey definitely gonna be filled by an Englishman? Any other contenders?
I would have picked Wilkinson at 10, and maybe I'm being overly harsh on his performance against Ireland, but after that game I got the impression his performance against Wales was more of a fluke...
And I know now we're getting into the nationalistic side of things, but I can't see how you can omit Warburton from your backrow! Basically, we're all fighting over SOB, Warbs and Croft it seems! Do we push Heaslip out of the 8 jersey?
Ding, you raise a very valid point. I have rated Sexton highly, but what I've seen of him in the highlights made me suspect he's blown a fuse or something. However, I didn't take into account the TOL effect. So now we're looking at Sexton/Wilkinson/Hook for the 10 jersey and bench. Who loses out?
And I couldn't replace Roberts with Hook. Roberts was immense in the midfield the whole month.
Likewise for George North. I know he's young and only had a handful of games, but he's already made a huge impact. He breaks tackles, drives hard, makes yards and is generally just a tank with a rocket engine. Oh, his positioning isn't quite there yet - thats maybe the one thing he could be called up on.
Foden/Armitage is debatable, I just feel that Armitage has shown more of a spark than Foden. I don't like Armitage though. Think he's a hot-head. Just wish Byrne wasn't playing like a pantomime villain.
posted on 30/8/11
Damn Gecko sounds like there would way more problems selecting a lions outfit then easy calls.
Roberts is a good player but limited, if it was a tour against SA i would have him, you need that bulk, but i would prefer a ball player against OZ or NZ Horses for courses as they say. Plus Roberts with BOD outside played the rugby of his life in the last tour. he needs a big brain along side him to make the best of his ample abilities. As for the 3 10's u mentioned mate i would not leave hook at home but in that list i only see 2 real fly halves and one lad who has been bounced by club and country all over the park and does not know his best position. He could be great in one game and have a howler the next, and at ten you need a level head always. Still i would be wanting to find a place for him because i really do rate him. Will he be playing 10 in france? maybe if he gets a long run in one position he will find his feet.
Now to the back row debate. Sry lads SOB is going nowhere. hes the best 6 in europe. Heaslip has the french clubs banging on his door every day of the week looking to sign him, which in fact will happen after the world cup. You heard it hear first. The only way we will keep him in ireland is if DK or which ever manager, gives him the captains arm band. so i gues your arguing over the 7 spot. hahaha
posted on 31/8/11
I'm not convinced by the argument that Roberts is limited. He does have soft hands. He may not be in the BOD mould of creativity and being a livewire, but he's certainly not a brick wall that kills off ball to the outside backs. He takes the crash ball when he needs to, and generally does an excellent job of it; he plays his part in the distributor role in planned moves; and he does offload when he gets the chance.
Also I thought his defence was inspirational this summer - he stopped players dead in their tracks and proceeded to march them back, time after time. I would dread playing against someone who could do that to me and my team mates.
I couldn't drop him for Hook. Nor anyone else at the moment.
posted on 31/8/11
I agree - Roberts gets the nod for me - Hook is a funny one really - I rate him as a Rugby player but Im not sure at what position - he needs some time to make a position his own - a full season at 10 perhaps???????????
posted on 31/8/11
Yeah, I was skeptical about playing Hook at 10 for Wales this season because he was dropped and used as a utility back for the previous two years. But he showed his class when given the chances. I'm not saying I don't expect that if given more chances he'd have thrown a few bloody interception passes... but on the performances he gave he showed he still has the potential to run a game at 10. Give him the continued gametime and he could be a real force there.
That said, this is more a defence of Hook rather than defence of Hook at 10 for the Lions. I'd quite happily see Sexton or Wilkinson there if they could play consistently at their potential. Maybe if they had more gametime in this summer I would have gone for them more wholeheartedly.