Better from the Ox!

comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 13 minutes ago
"However, regardless of this I struggle to think of anything that he has done to put himself in the same bracket as Alex."

===

"Bracket"? Which "bracket" is this?

Campbell has scored two very well taken goals and set up a couple of goals with quick feet and great vision too. 1 of those goals was the opener against sunderland at a critical part of the game. one of those assists was for giroud to put us up 2-0 in the crunch game vs olympiakos.

When was the last time Ox did anything of note? All he does lately is dribble on the outside of a defender. "Same bracket" indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I also think Ox has the higher ceiling, and I hope he reaches it. But please don't just dismiss what Joel has done to push your agenda.
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I think DaStuDogg has pretty much nailed that response.

Other than that Chamberlain has produced a lot more for us in other games and proven himself over a few seasons. Obviously he has been given much more playing time to do this. Two highlights for me were the Champions League game a few seasons ago when we had been thrashed something like 4-0 in the first leg and I believe we came close to turning it round with 3 goals in the second leg. Chamberlain was instrumental in that performance, running the game from central midfield at about 18/19 years of age. I also really enjoyed his goal for England against Brazil albeit in a friendly.

I'm not trying to push an "agenda" and perhaps I'm not giving Campbell enough credit for a few good things he has done for us recently, he's not a particularly flashy player so it's easier for him to go unnoticed but he's been important for us in some crucial games. He looks a lot fitter these days and his work-rate has been excellent going forward and defensively.

*That was the AC Milan game I was referring to.

Chamberlain has had some weaker performances but most young player do suffer from inconsistency at times.

comment by DaStuDogg (U9291)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 11 hours, 4 minutes ago
"However, regardless of this I struggle to think of anything that he has done to put himself in the same bracket as Alex."

===

"Bracket"? Which "bracket" is this?

Campbell has scored two very well taken goals and set up a couple of goals with quick feet and great vision too. 1 of those goals was the opener against sunderland at a critical part of the game. one of those assists was for giroud to put us up 2-0 in the crunch game vs olympiakos.

When was the last time Ox did anything of note? All he does lately is dribble on the outside of a defender. "Same bracket" indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I also think Ox has the higher ceiling, and I hope he reaches it. But please don't just dismiss what Joel has done to push your agenda.
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Both our goals against Bournemouth came through Chamberlain. The first one, he got the ball around the half-way line and won us the corner out of nothing (from which we scored); on the second, he won the ball back for us to start the move, held off two defenders before releasing Ramsey, and then made a run behind the left-back to drag him away and open up space for the pass to Ozil.

And to say all he does is dribble on the outside of defenders is incorrect as well. The chance where he hit the post against Bournemouth came from him cutting in field and evading the challenges of their midfielders, hitting a cross-field ball to Campbell, continuing his run through the centre of the pitch, and then cutting back across the defenders to get his shot away.
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Come on DaStu, you know what I mean.

I'm talking about decisive contributions in the penalty area. I'm sure Campbell has won a few corners, and don't forget his role in the second goal vs Man City, it was his strength and hold up play on the wing that got the ball forward. Very similar to what you described as the Ox's role in our second v Bournemouth.

I really don't want to turn this into Joel vs Ox, I was just slightly miffed that Joel's contributions were being dismissed without real thought.

Both good young players, and as I've mentioned, I do believe the Ox has the higher ceiling. For me, his main problem is what goes on in his head, you can see it every time he misses a shot or pass how he's torturing himself. A bit like Giroud used to really. He needs to lay off the social media (which no doubt contributes to his mentality) and work on that.

Ox doesn't seem to be growing at all. Losing patience with him.

comment by You Can't Buy Class - You Can Mash $puds (U12019)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 13 minutes ago
"However, regardless of this I struggle to think of anything that he has done to put himself in the same bracket as Alex."

===

"Bracket"? Which "bracket" is this?

Campbell has scored two very well taken goals and set up a couple of goals with quick feet and great vision too. 1 of those goals was the opener against sunderland at a critical part of the game. one of those assists was for giroud to put us up 2-0 in the crunch game vs olympiakos.

When was the last time Ox did anything of note? All he does lately is dribble on the outside of a defender. "Same bracket" indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I also think Ox has the higher ceiling, and I hope he reaches it. But please don't just dismiss what Joel has done to push your agenda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think DaStuDogg has pretty much nailed that response.

Other than that Chamberlain has produced a lot more for us in other games and proven himself over a few seasons. Obviously he has been given much more playing time to do this. Two highlights for me were the Champions League game a few seasons ago when we had been thrashed something like 4-0 in the first leg and I believe we came close to turning it round with 3 goals in the second leg. Chamberlain was instrumental in that performance, running the game from central midfield at about 18/19 years of age. I also really enjoyed his goal for England against Brazil albeit in a friendly.

I'm not trying to push an "agenda" and perhaps I'm not giving Campbell enough credit for a few good things he has done for us recently, he's not a particularly flashy player so it's easier for him to go unnoticed but he's been important for us in some crucial games. He looks a lot fitter these days and his work-rate has been excellent going forward and defensively.
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I'm sorry but if we're using games from 4 years ago to justify Ox's place in the team right now, then we're reaching a little bit aren't we?

I'm also not concerned about what he does for England, it's nice and all, but it doesn't really concern his Arsenal career.

I'm glad you admitted you weren't giving Joel the credit he deserves, that was my main issue. I don't think Joel is some sort of superstar btw, like you, I think he's a very useful squad player.

Personally, I don't mind which of them starts, they both have their own attributes. But I do believe Joel's suits our team more right now. I was intrigued to see what Ox would do against Bournemouth, and I think he played ok.

comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - You Can Mash $puds (U12019)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 13 minutes ago
"However, regardless of this I struggle to think of anything that he has done to put himself in the same bracket as Alex."

===

"Bracket"? Which "bracket" is this?

Campbell has scored two very well taken goals and set up a couple of goals with quick feet and great vision too. 1 of those goals was the opener against sunderland at a critical part of the game. one of those assists was for giroud to put us up 2-0 in the crunch game vs olympiakos.

When was the last time Ox did anything of note? All he does lately is dribble on the outside of a defender. "Same bracket" indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I also think Ox has the higher ceiling, and I hope he reaches it. But please don't just dismiss what Joel has done to push your agenda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think DaStuDogg has pretty much nailed that response.

Other than that Chamberlain has produced a lot more for us in other games and proven himself over a few seasons. Obviously he has been given much more playing time to do this. Two highlights for me were the Champions League game a few seasons ago when we had been thrashed something like 4-0 in the first leg and I believe we came close to turning it round with 3 goals in the second leg. Chamberlain was instrumental in that performance, running the game from central midfield at about 18/19 years of age. I also really enjoyed his goal for England against Brazil albeit in a friendly.

I'm not trying to push an "agenda" and perhaps I'm not giving Campbell enough credit for a few good things he has done for us recently, he's not a particularly flashy player so it's easier for him to go unnoticed but he's been important for us in some crucial games. He looks a lot fitter these days and his work-rate has been excellent going forward and defensively.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry but if we're using games from 4 years ago to justify Ox's place in the team right now, then we're reaching a little bit aren't we?

I'm also not concerned about what he does for England, it's nice and all, but it doesn't really concern his Arsenal career.

I'm glad you admitted you weren't giving Joel the credit he deserves, that was my main issue. I don't think Joel is some sort of superstar btw, like you, I think he's a very useful squad player.

Personally, I don't mind which of them starts, they both have their own attributes. But I do believe Joel's suits our team more right now. I was intrigued to see what Ox would do against Bournemouth, and I think he played ok.
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I'm not using it to justify his selection now but as an example of his ability when he is at his best.

I think played ok is a little unfair, for me Ozil + Ox were our two best players against Bournemouth.

You are right, Campbell does deserve credit for coming into the team at an important time and providing some crucial moments offensively. However, he has not blown me away. Although he has taken his chance well.

He is capable of moments magic but he can't really be relied upon week in week out in a team challenging for titles. He was the same place four years ago when we got him too. He still plays like the 17 yo we signed from Soton in that his play has just about zero maturity. He is a total liability defensively too and is always prone to just totally switch off and neglect that side of his game. He should be not more than a squad player imo and we should get real quality to play that right wing until he grows up at least

Gabriel was excellent against Bournemouth. I would prefer him to partner Koscielny when we are playing against a forward line with pace. Mertesacker best used against big strikers like Crouch.

comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 1 day ago
comment by DaStuDogg (U9291)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 11 hours, 4 minutes ago
"However, regardless of this I struggle to think of anything that he has done to put himself in the same bracket as Alex."

===

"Bracket"? Which "bracket" is this?

Campbell has scored two very well taken goals and set up a couple of goals with quick feet and great vision too. 1 of those goals was the opener against sunderland at a critical part of the game. one of those assists was for giroud to put us up 2-0 in the crunch game vs olympiakos.

When was the last time Ox did anything of note? All he does lately is dribble on the outside of a defender. "Same bracket" indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I also think Ox has the higher ceiling, and I hope he reaches it. But please don't just dismiss what Joel has done to push your agenda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both our goals against Bournemouth came through Chamberlain. The first one, he got the ball around the half-way line and won us the corner out of nothing (from which we scored); on the second, he won the ball back for us to start the move, held off two defenders before releasing Ramsey, and then made a run behind the left-back to drag him away and open up space for the pass to Ozil.

And to say all he does is dribble on the outside of defenders is incorrect as well. The chance where he hit the post against Bournemouth came from him cutting in field and evading the challenges of their midfielders, hitting a cross-field ball to Campbell, continuing his run through the centre of the pitch, and then cutting back across the defenders to get his shot away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Come on DaStu, you know what I mean.

I'm talking about decisive contributions in the penalty area. I'm sure Campbell has won a few corners, and don't forget his role in the second goal vs Man City, it was his strength and hold up play on the wing that got the ball forward. Very similar to what you described as the Ox's role in our second v Bournemouth.

I really don't want to turn this into Joel vs Ox, I was just slightly miffed that Joel's contributions were being dismissed without real thought.

Both good young players, and as I've mentioned, I do believe the Ox has the higher ceiling. For me, his main problem is what goes on in his head, you can see it every time he misses a shot or pass how he's torturing himself. A bit like Giroud used to really. He needs to lay off the social media (which no doubt contributes to his mentality) and work on that.
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I don't condone dismissing Campbell's contributions, but you have to appreciate that claiming that all Chamberlain 'does lately is dribble on the outside' is a also a little bit of a disservice.

It may sound like I'm scraping the barrel for compliments by including Chamberlain winning a corner as a decisive contribution, but the work he did was fantastic and in a game that we'd been struggling to get a foothold in up until then, his ability to create that opening pretty much out of nothing (received the ball basically by our half way line, skipped past Cook easily and bullied Daniels out of the challenge when he looked second favourite, before getting the corner.) turned the tie in our favour.

People seem to use Chamberlain's dribbling as a stick to beat him with (or at least claim that all he does is run down blind alleys and lose the ball), but having a player who can consistently take one or two (or more, on occasion) opponents out of the game is an invaluable ace in the hole, and his running was pivotal for us in the Bournemouth game.
Chamberlain's combination of strength, pace, and close ball control makes him an exceptional dribbler, and it irks me how quick people are to disregard this as if it's nothing particularly special.

In terms of decisive contributions:
-1st start of the season, he was man of the match in the CS against Chelsea - running Azpilicueta ragged and scoring the goal to win us the game.
-2nd game against West Ham, he was a huge attacking threat, completing by far and away the highest number of dribbles of any player on the pitch, and having the second highest number of key passes - including the 70 yard run where he went past 4 players and set up Cazorla at the back post who hit it over.

Then he got dropped.....

Came back in against Newcastle and got us the goal that won us the game (via a deflection and was classified as an own goal, but must surely count as a decisive contribution). And his first time pass also set up Bellerin for what should have been a (stonewall) penalty and arguably a red card for the Newcastle defender.

Then got dropped again....

Came back against Everton, had the beating of Galloway all day: played Sanchez through on goal twice and set up Giroud to hit the bar.

Then got dropped....

Then came back against Sunderland (a game which I didn't see), in what I understand was a disappointing performance.

Got dropped.

Then came in against Bournemouth and created all of the aforementioned opportunities against them.

Given the limited opportunities he's had, not to mention the effect consistently being dropped and thrown back into the team (in different positions, might I add) must have on a player's form and confidence, I'd say he's done pretty well in terms of making an impact when given the chance to do so.