We have woken up to a different Britain today, and a different Europe. I personally thought this was coming, and the anti EU consensus was growing over the past year. We don't know what Britain will be like, and what sort of society we will be outside the EU. However what I do feel that austerity has played a huge role on this eventual break.
People have been told the economy has been growing over and over again by David Cameron, but people like myself didn't feel we were getting any better off over the past few years. Austerity is a dangerous economic tool, which has succeeded in a handful of countries, but failed dramatically in many others. Contrary to some beliefs, it wasn't hyper inflation which led to the uprising of fascism in Germany, it was the austerity measures in the early 1930s after the great depression hit Germany in 1929. The government cut and cut, and unemployment sky rocketed. Now people who voted out in the referendum are not fascists, however there is similarities between how nationalism grew out of the failure to improve the lives of their citizens.
People see the establishment rightfully in some ways for what it is, which is self serving for the interests of others and not the majority. Austerity was always a economic choice, not a necessity. And for many areas of the UK people have seen the lack of housing and pressure on the NHS as reasons we had to leave the EU.
But be warned those who voted out. Whatever replaces our establishment might not be what you had hoped for. Your politicians will make a trade agreement with the EU, and possibly a bad one, which will mean no changes to immigration and to continue to pay money to the EU.
I want to end this with a part from animal farm I really like. I guess it might sum up how what I suspect we will see with a trade deal with the EU after this Brexit.
"Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which"
Joaquin
Austerity
posted on 24/6/16
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/6/16
Look I'm not saying its exactly the same. More than factor contributed to the result of the referendum too. My main point is how austerity has really failed in the UK to repair the damage of the 2008 crisis.
The treaty of Versailles obviously was the main catalyst to the rise of Hitler, along with the points Backstarr makes, but the austerity measures after the depression pushed the weimar republic over the edge and grew the resentment of anti establishment values.
We are seeing austerity over Europe, and consequently nationalism and socialism is on the rise in different countries. Similarly in Germany during the 1930s we saw the rise of both socialism and nationalism. Austerity failed in the weimar republic, as has it failed in most of Europe.
posted on 24/6/16
Sorry it's just not a comparison that adds up at all....
As a general point - fascists and socialists alike can and will use whatever political ammunition (such as economic circumstances) they can to generate fear and support. I agree there. But I don't attribute the responsibility of that to those who try to implement austerity measures as an economic recovery policy.
For austerity to be implemented there has to be something major that precedes it. In 1929 it was the Wall Street collapse. In 2008 the global financial crisis. It's these events that extremists such as hitler were able to utilise and spin the argument against racial groups
I don't see austerity as being responsible - I see fascists and socialists as being responsible
posted on 24/6/16
Regardless of links to Germany, anyone who thinks this vote will get of the establishment has quite simply been fooled by Nigel Farage.
The vote has taken power away from EU, divided labour, divided the conservatives and left the power in the hands of the conservative politicians such as Gove and Johnson who have campaigned for further cuts and privatisation of the NHS. They are as establishment as they come.
This certainly wasn't a vote to oust the establishment, if thats what many were voting leave for, they are about to get a nasty shock.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by LSTD. Member of the Raul Garcia supporters gro... (U2708)
posted 18 minutes ago
Regardless of links to Germany, anyone who thinks this vote will get of the establishment has quite simply been fooled by Nigel Farage.
The vote has taken power away from EU, divided labour, divided the conservatives and left the power in the hands of the conservative politicians such as Gove and Johnson who have campaigned for further cuts and privatisation of the NHS. They are as establishment as they come.
This certainly wasn't a vote to oust the establishment, if thats what many were voting leave for, they are about to get a nasty shock.
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Exactly.
Part of the reason I voted remain, and why I included the quote from animal farm at the end.
Whatever sort of UK they think will exist outside of the EU won't be tangible or realistic. We will likely make a trade deal with Europe, and like Norway we will have to agree with free movement of EU citizens, and follow the same EU laws and regulations we did when we were a part of the EU. Without the benefit of having to decide or influence what happens.
The other options, the more dramatic and scary option, is that we chose to move away from Europe politically and economically, and agree to a deal with the US like TTIP, which would open up the NHS and welfare state to be privatised.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by Blackstarr (U12353)
posted 25 minutes ago
Sorry it's just not a comparison that adds up at all....
As a general point - fascists and socialists alike can and will use whatever political ammunition (such as economic circumstances) they can to generate fear and support. I agree there. But I don't attribute the responsibility of that to those who try to implement austerity measures as an economic recovery policy.
For austerity to be implemented there has to be something major that precedes it. In 1929 it was the Wall Street collapse. In 2008 the global financial crisis. It's these events that extremists such as hitler were able to utilise and spin the argument against racial groups
I don't see austerity as being responsible - I see fascists and socialists as being responsible
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Austerity has been implemented without a giant financial crisis, and I'm not fully against the policy, but I don't consider it to work well when the economy is in depression or recession. Austerity used unsuccessfully like any other economic or political policy will contribute to the rise far left or far right ideologies. The failure of austerity in both these cases is what I considered to have failed.
posted on 24/6/16
I was listening to some of the insightful people of the north east talking on 5 live this morning.
They were asked did they know the result, how they voted, and what my be the consequences of leaving.
Four or five people were asked these questions, and they offered some wonderful points of view.
How did you vote ?
'I voted leave'.
Why ?
'I dont go to Europe, so it dont bother me much'.
The same was asked of an elderly man.
'Have we left ?' he said.
Yes.
'Oh right, didnt know'
Did you vote leave ?
'Yes, but I didnt think they were going to win'.
Are you worried ?
'Er, yes, a little.'
A young lady gave her reason for voting leave.
'Weve had enough, someone needs to put them in their place'
Who ?
'The fat cats and bankers'
Oh, but do you not worry about the economy ?
'We might suffer for two or three years, but we are Britain, and well be fine'.
So there you have it.
Marvellous stuff there..
posted on 24/6/16
comment by jlou1978 (U15376)
posted 11 minutes ago
I was listening to some of the insightful people of the north east talking on 5 live this morning.
They were asked did they know the result, how they voted, and what my be the consequences of leaving.
Four or five people were asked these questions, and they offered some wonderful points of view.
How did you vote ?
'I voted leave'.
Why ?
'I dont go to Europe, so it dont bother me much'.
The same was asked of an elderly man.
'Have we left ?' he said.
Yes.
'Oh right, didnt know'
Did you vote leave ?
'Yes, but I didnt think they were going to win'.
Are you worried ?
'Er, yes, a little.'
A young lady gave her reason for voting leave.
'Weve had enough, someone needs to put them in their place'
Who ?
'The fat cats and bankers'
Oh, but do you not worry about the economy ?
'We might suffer for two or three years, but we are Britain, and well be fine'.
So there you have it.
Marvellous stuff there..
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Thats truly terrifying
posted on 24/6/16
How did you vote ?
'I voted leave'.
Why ?
'I dont go to Europe, so it dont bother me much'.
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This one is just priceless. This is why refendums are a bad idea because a large proportion of the population are idiots.
posted on 24/6/16
These same people will now go back to blaming british benefit "scroungers", the type that account for a miniscule amount of public funds lost while the big city corps get away with tax breaks hundreds of times greater.
They always have to blame someone for their sheet lives but not once have they managed to see who's truly taking them for a ride.