Hi guys!
I honestly dont know what we practice in training. Not trying to be funny or anything. Our shooting is abysmal. Players who could shoot seem to regress. Our set pieces are useless. We dont seem to really want to tackle - only our defenders, the Coq and Sanchez (sometimes) seem to know how. Watching Baines cut in so easily on Walcott, Iwobi looking clueless defensively (leaving Monreal high and dry), Xhaka diving in, Ozil - I dont think he even knows what a tackle is - really winds me up.
Our defensive shape is a shambles. We stand 2 yards off a player and wait for him to pass it. No harrying or hassling a player, no trying to get close to put in a tackle. We seem to depend on misplaced passes or eventual crowding out in and around our penalty box to get the ball back. I honestly feel for Sanchez. Trying to press and just exhausting himself. Massive space between him and our midfield. Funnily thing though is that we played higher up the pitch earlier on this season and seemed better about getting the ball back but now for the past few games, we seem to be dropping deep and somehow still leaving huge space between the lines.
So what does Wenger work on in training? Or are the players that thick that they cannot do the basics during a game?
What is done in training?
posted on 19/12/16
#aha
posted on 19/12/16
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 1 minute ago
also the wide men do not do a good job in covering the full back, meaning the 2 have to do that as well.
----------------------
You cannot do that unless you change the formation to 4-4-2.
Please explain in detail why our wide players cant do a defensive job like the defensive FB's can do an offensive job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Avoiding doing smiley's eh ?
Look at two formations.
4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1
FB--------CB------------Cb----------FB
RW-------CM------------Cm---------LW
--------------------no10------------------
-----------------striker-------------------
4-2-3-1 or 4-1-1-2-1-1
FB--------CB-------CB------FB
----------Cm-------cm----------
-----RF--------no.10-------LF---
---------------striker-------------
its about the starting positions. In a 4-2-3-1 the wide players start far higher up the pitch and more tucked in behind the striker. The width is provided by the full backs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So logically, I could see the CM in a 4-2-3-1 having to move wide to help the fullback but we dont do that. In our set up, it is expected for the RF and LF to track the runners on the wing. If we WERE to push CM's wider to help, It would mean the RF, LF and #10 would have to drop to cover the CM. And we all know that our current ones would be terrible doing that. I also see just a ton of confusion because if we play an out ball wide after retrieving possession, it would mean it's our CM's who have the ball. Not gonna work to be honest as they dont have the pace to then get out on the counter down the wings.
Good conversation though!
posted on 19/12/16
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 1 minute ago
also the wide men do not do a good job in covering the full back, meaning the 2 have to do that as well.
----------------------
You cannot do that unless you change the formation to 4-4-2.
Please explain in detail why our wide players cant do a defensive job like the defensive FB's can do an offensive job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Avoiding doing smiley's eh ?
Look at two formations.
4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1
FB--------CB------------Cb----------FB
RW-------CM------------Cm---------LW
--------------------no10------------------
-----------------striker-------------------
4-2-3-1 or 4-1-1-2-1-1
FB--------CB-------CB------FB
----------Cm-------cm----------
-----RF--------no.10-------LF---
---------------striker-------------
its about the starting positions. In a 4-2-3-1 the wide players start far higher up the pitch and more tucked in behind the striker. The width is provided by the full backs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With the ball we are pretty much...
---------------Cech-------------------
---------Mustafi----Koscielny-----------
-------------------Coq------------------
--------------Xhaka-------Coq-------------Monreal
---------------Ozil---Alexis---Iwobi---------
Bellerin-----------------------Coq----------------------
--------Walcott--------------------------------------
Then without
---------------Cech-------------------
------Mustafi----Koscielny--Coq---------Monreal
Bellerin -Coq --------Coq------Coq-------Coq-----------
-----------------------Coq--------------------------
-----------Xhaka-----------------------------------------
--------------Alexis-------------------------
Walcott------------------Alexis-----------Alexis---
---------Alexis--------Alexis---Iwobi--------Alexis
---------------------Ozil---------------------------
--------Walcott--------------------Alexis------------------
Loads of teams play 4-2-3-1 where the wide attackers/inside forwards get back in and help their full back. It is part of the job unless you don't have the number 10 but a third midfielder.
posted on 19/12/16
Out of possession we tend to play a 4-4-1-1, with Sanchez pushed a bit further forward and Ozil floating inn front of two banks of four.
The problem isn't really the starting position of the wife players, but more their unwillingness to do the the defensive work. This is evident from the fact that when Sanchez on the left (i.e. most of last season) Monreal appears much better, because Sanchez puts in the work and doesn't leave Monreal isolated.
I'm a big fan of Iwobi, but his defensive contribution isn't good enough at the moment. Theo and Ox similarly.
posted on 19/12/16
--------------------------------------------------------------
What is done in training?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Been beating this drum for ages. Unfortunately, some Arsenal fans regard criticizing the Gunners as an impeachable offense. Too often does this team appear to lack life, to be strategically unprepared and to appear leaderless on the field.
Could it be that the HMS Arsenal has struck an iceberg earlier than usual this season?
posted on 19/12/16
With the ball we are pretty much...
---------------Cech-------------------
---------Mustafi----Koscielny-----------
-------------------Coq------------------
--------------Xhaka-------Coq-------------Monreal
---------------Ozil---Alexis---Iwobi---------
Bellerin-----------------------Coq----------------------
--------Walcott--------------------------------------
Then without
---------------Cech-------------------
------Mustafi----Koscielny--Coq---------Monreal
Bellerin -Coq --------Coq------Coq-------Coq-----------
-----------------------Coq--------------------------
-----------Xhaka-----------------------------------------
--------------Alexis-------------------------
Walcott------------------Alexis-----------Alexis---
---------Alexis--------Alexis---Iwobi--------Alexis
---------------------Ozil---------------------------
--------Walcott--------------------Alexis------------------
Loads of teams play 4-2-3-1 where the wide attackers/inside forwards get back in and help their full back. It is part of the job unless you don't have the number 10 but a third midfielder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No they don't. If you pull your attacking forwards back there is no way you can get out against most teams. Let alone against teams that press themselves using the forward press counter as Klopp calls it. Think about it. If you only have one striker to hit, who is usually playing against 2 CBs, whilst the rest of your team is defending. Keep in mind in a 4-4-2 you are playing your no.10 far further forward so you have at least two men to target with a long ball. Whereas in 4-3-2-1 you literally bringing back your no.10 as an attacking midfielder not a forward.
On top of that your wide forwards are further up the pitch and also more central. So you are expecting they charge back and be in time to defend against a team attacking usually with fast wingers? Its nothing more than a cliche. Walcott has done it but he one of the fastest players in the league and he did his ACL trying to do just that! In fact think back to the goal for Everton when he was crucified for running back full pelt and then not slowing down and being set to defend a simple cross that Monreal completely mashed by not taking the player in front him. Rubbish analysis by Ian Wright by the way!
posted on 19/12/16
The problem isn't really the starting position of the wife players, but more their unwillingness to do the the defensive work. This is evident from the fact that when Sanchez on the left (i.e. most of last season) Monreal appears much better, because Sanchez puts in the work and doesn't leave Monreal isolated.
-------------------------------------
However that makes Alexis completely in effective. Think back to the criticism Alexis received last season when Giroud went on his dry spell. This is my point of being too far away from the striker and not being able to get out. I don't care if you have C. Ronaldo. If you are so deep when you eventually win the ball back you can do nothing with it against pressing you in your own half!
Out of possession we tend to play a 4-4-1-1, with Sanchez pushed a bit further forward and Ozil floating inn front of two banks of four.
----------------------------
This is not usual. Just what we did against Man City and Man Utd and tend to do it when playing away. Frankly Wenger beat Man City one time by playing this tactic when Santi Cazorla was absolutely immense dribbling out of deep midfield right in centre of the park and Wenger thinks it will always work. It hasn't worked since then. Even with Santi for example against WBA and Norwich in away games last year. It shows Wenger doesn't really understand why things were working so far this season. Its why I have felt and even when we were winning before last week that Wenger needs to go. I want him to upstairs but I believe he is lacking in modern management and tactics. He does get it eventually but usually too late when others have moved on!
posted on 19/12/16
Theo has been putting in a strong defensive shift for a while now so it's unfair to lump him with ox and iwobi who both do nothing. This isn't as bad as some are making out. Too much over analysing going on in search of blame apportioning. I think the last couple of games shows more than ever, we're no "Counter attacking team" Somewhere everyone's got it in their head that we are because we score alot of our goals whilst counter attacking. But this is very different to actually being a counter attacking team.
We are dire playing off the back foot (something true counter attacking teams are great at) A Wenger side setting out to soak up opposition attacks and counter punch, is a Wenger side most likely about to lose or draw a game. We play our best when we take the game to the opposition. Pedal to the metal, high intensity, press press press. Rush the goal, missed, steal possession in opposing third, rush the goal again. Opposition beaten in a 6-12 minute three goal flurry. We are an attacking side who score alot on the counter due to blistering pace in the team. We have to be attacking because were simply not setup personnel wise to not be. Winning the ball in the opposition third is OUR personnel's strongest defensive option. But as pointed out already, it requires the whole team to press as one.
We'd been pressing brilliantly again, right up until we lost Mustafi. His presence and moreso his communication, settled and solidified the defensive platform. This gave the team the confidence in what was behind them to press as a team. Gabrielle now in has everyone nervous and tentative again. The forwards just don't have enough confidence in Gabrielle to rush the opposition defense in the same way. I suspect Wenger is also guilty here. Two games on the trot now, we've backed right off pressing the oppositon. Has he told them to back off whilst Mustafi is out because he too lacks faith in Gabrielle. I know one thing, I thought we needed Mustafi back fast after the Everton game. That sentiment has increased tenfold after the City one. Gabrielle/Kos much longer could see the EPL season flushed down the khasi within weeks.
posted on 19/12/16
Agree with Jenius. The approach we took to the City game was ridiculous. City are in defensive chaos at the moment. Pep's insistance they play out of Defense no matter what and their total lack of confidence at doing so. Meant there was never a team more prime to be trounced by the Gunners. Yet Wenger seemed to miss the link between how good we can be at pressing and City being bound to fall apart if we did.
All we had to do in that game was press the defenders in possession and they'd have fallen apart. LeSaux was commentating on the feed I watched and he was even pointing out the City defense all just wanted shot of the ball the seco d they had it. Each player was that nervous in possession he just wanted to give the ball to someone else so he wouldn't be the on to make a mistake. We missed a perfect chance to throw down one hell of a statement about the title race. To miss something that obvious shows it's definitely time for AW to hand over the reigns. Besides he's getting old and I genuinely worry I will tune in to watch a match one day and see him have a heart attack or stroke mid-game
posted on 21/12/16
A great article OP. A point that you missed however, is that our possession and passing has been abysmal for sometime. This used to be the main feature of the "Arsenal way." Without that, IMO, we are average at best.