The Cult of Jose

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 8 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 6 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 36 minutes ago
I don’t think you can use other managers as a justification.

Since Inter Milan he hasn’t been at a team more than 3 years and there not been a big fallout in the final season. Hence ‘short term’ = no more than 3 years, ‘long term pain’ = turmoil off the pitch.

You also said:
“I don’t see why he won’t last a decent amount of time with us though“.
I don’t see why I couldn’t live to 200 years old either - however based on substantial evidence in both instances I get an idea as to why.
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I think you definitely can use other managers as a justification because surely that’s the benchmark.

As I demonstrated, 5 of our last 8 managers haven’t event lasted 1 1/2 years, let alone 3 years!
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Do you think 3 years is long term then?
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It probably is in modern day football.

I don’t necessarily think it is long term, but it’s not particularly short term either.

Look at the Prem currently, the following managers have been in their jobs for under 2 seasons:

Hasenhuttle
Solskjaer
Rodgers
Parker
Potter
Bilic
Lampard
Bruce
José
Arteta
Ancelotti
Moyes

A bad run of form and any of these managers could be replaced and be out of a job before serving 3 years.



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So you don’t understand what is intended by ‘short term gain for long term pain’?
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I fully understand.

Long term pain is absolute BS though.

Is José that powerful and destructive that once he leaves a club they are in 'long term pain'?

Is it his fault if managers following his departure aren't a success?

Should Fergie be looked at a hugely successful manager or someone that ruined United because following his departure, they haven't been as successful?

I don't think the Ferguson comparison is great - the whole point is weighing up the short term pros vs long term cons. Ferguson's "pros" column includes 27 years of success, so clearly it was worth it.

comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 23 minutes ago
I don't think the Ferguson comparison is great - the whole point is weighing up the short term pros vs long term cons. Ferguson's "pros" column includes 27 years of success, so clearly it was worth it.
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Short term pros = a trophy/trophies (based on previous)

Long term cons = ???

comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 23 minutes ago
I don't think the Ferguson comparison is great - the whole point is weighing up the short term pros vs long term cons. Ferguson's "pros" column includes 27 years of success, so clearly it was worth it.
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Short term pros = a trophy/trophies (based on previous)

Long term cons = ???
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I'm not trying to argue with you. It's all still up in the air.

If Mourinho wins the Premiership, then the long term cons would have to be pretty significant for it not to have been worth it.

On the other hand, if Mourinho only wins the League Cup (or not even that), then we just have to hope it doesn't all end in acrimony and an expensive ongoing rebuild like it did at United.

comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 23 minutes ago
I don't think the Ferguson comparison is great - the whole point is weighing up the short term pros vs long term cons. Ferguson's "pros" column includes 27 years of success, so clearly it was worth it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Short term pros = a trophy/trophies (based on previous)

Long term cons = ???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to argue with you. It's all still up in the air.

If Mourinho wins the Premiership, then the long term cons would have to be pretty significant for it not to have been worth it.

On the other hand, if Mourinho only wins the League Cup (or not even that), then we just have to hope it doesn't all end in acrimony and an expensive ongoing rebuild like it did at United.
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I'm not trying to argue either, I'm trying to establish what the long term pain is?

I'm trying to establish what the long term pain is?
———
PTSD having been tortured by watching his team play football for a couple of years.

comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 4 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 23 minutes ago
I don't think the Ferguson comparison is great - the whole point is weighing up the short term pros vs long term cons. Ferguson's "pros" column includes 27 years of success, so clearly it was worth it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Short term pros = a trophy/trophies (based on previous)

Long term cons = ???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to argue with you. It's all still up in the air.

If Mourinho wins the Premiership, then the long term cons would have to be pretty significant for it not to have been worth it.

On the other hand, if Mourinho only wins the League Cup (or not even that), then we just have to hope it doesn't all end in acrimony and an expensive ongoing rebuild like it did at United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to argue either, I'm trying to establish what the long term pain is?


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Being left with an ageing squad on high wages, no youth brought through, and an expensive squad rebuild urgently needed, plus a toxic atmosphere around the club that takes a long time to shift. In other words, what happened at United.

comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
I'm trying to establish what the long term pain is?
———
PTSD having been tortured by watching his team play football for a couple of years.
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Sir Alex had Mourinho PTSD for years.

Do you remember that time Sir Alex went to Stamford Bridge, knowing that his United team had to beat chelsea to stop Chelsea winning the title and Mourinho bent Sir Alex Ferguson and spanked his United team 3-0 to win back to back titles.

Good times.

comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 4 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 23 minutes ago
I don't think the Ferguson comparison is great - the whole point is weighing up the short term pros vs long term cons. Ferguson's "pros" column includes 27 years of success, so clearly it was worth it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Short term pros = a trophy/trophies (based on previous)

Long term cons = ???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to argue with you. It's all still up in the air.

If Mourinho wins the Premiership, then the long term cons would have to be pretty significant for it not to have been worth it.

On the other hand, if Mourinho only wins the League Cup (or not even that), then we just have to hope it doesn't all end in acrimony and an expensive ongoing rebuild like it did at United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to argue either, I'm trying to establish what the long term pain is?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Being left with an ageing squad on high wages, no youth brought through, and an expensive squad rebuild urgently needed, plus a toxic atmosphere around the club that takes a long time to shift. In other words, what happened at United.
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The manager and club should work together to ensure the squad isn’t left in tatters at any time.

Pretty sure the atmosphere turned around as soon as Jose left. Didn’t Ole go on a fantastic run ?

My point is, no one person is bigger than the club or should be in a position to create ‘long term pain’. It’s up to the club to turn it around if a relationship with a manager turns sour.

comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 4 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Doherty Sanchez (U3338)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 23 minutes ago
I don't think the Ferguson comparison is great - the whole point is weighing up the short term pros vs long term cons. Ferguson's "pros" column includes 27 years of success, so clearly it was worth it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Short term pros = a trophy/trophies (based on previous)

Long term cons = ???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to argue with you. It's all still up in the air.

If Mourinho wins the Premiership, then the long term cons would have to be pretty significant for it not to have been worth it.

On the other hand, if Mourinho only wins the League Cup (or not even that), then we just have to hope it doesn't all end in acrimony and an expensive ongoing rebuild like it did at United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to argue either, I'm trying to establish what the long term pain is?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Being left with an ageing squad on high wages, no youth brought through, and an expensive squad rebuild urgently needed, plus a toxic atmosphere around the club that takes a long time to shift. In other words, what happened at United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah that's a false equivalence right there. Their approach to signing managers and players has been a shambles for years. We're much more tightly run, though arguably Levy gave Poch too much say in our transfers given his lack of experience with a club of our size.. and the dressing room was a mess when he left.

The way I see it Jose is instilling what the likes of United have already - a determination to win above all else. If that's a hangover from his reign then great. It's clear the mentality for the past 20 years hasn't worked so there's really nothing to lose by changing it.