It's been asked a few times this season - moreso recently - but did Lampard have a plan, a system or a style of football in mind when we brought in the two Germans?
1. Werner
Still a lot of contention over his "best" position, but it's been widely agreed that he's not really a winger. He can do a "job" there but he has none of the traits that you'd expect from a top level winger other than pace. Poor first touch and passing, iffy ball control and little to no dribbling ability. He's not the type of player that can beat his man and whip in a cross.
This all being said, he's had plenty of goalscoring opportunities from the wing this season but hasn't been able to convert them. Lack of confidence and fatigue have been blamed but if anyone had watched him in the Bundesliga, they'd know that he's always been a volume shooter. When you're getting plenty of chances each match playing up-front (or at least mostly receiving the ball in and around the penalty area), this volume shooting isn't a serious issue. However, when you're on the wing where chances are limited, precision is favoured.
In terms of his long-term role within this Chelsea side, I think it can now be agreed that playing him as an out-and-out winger should be a last resort. But then where does that leave us?
He's far too lightweight to be a centre forward in the PL. Even players of similar stature to him (e.g. Aguero) are far stronger on the ball and are tricky enough to outwit defenders when they're playing with their back to goal. Werner is easily outmuscled and teams have no problem forcing him into a mistake when the ball's at his feet. His lack of presence upfront was dealt with at Leipzig by giving him a target man (Poulsen) to play off. He thrived on the space in behind that Poulsen created by sucking in the oppositions CBs. Giroud is a clear analog to this but we haven't really seen them deployed together in this way.
Which brings us back to the question.... What exactly did Lampard have in mind when he bought Werner???
2. Havertz
I have to admit, I was never convinced by this signing. Prior to his transfer, the reply of "generational talent" whenever someone questioned his potential utility to the team was a huge red flag for me. So far, his performances have been fairly underwhelming - even before he suffered from covid-19. In the course of this season he's played RW, part of a midfield 3, once as a false 9 and several times as a no10. In all of these roles, I couldn't say what definable qualities he's brought to the team. Occasionally he'll have a nice touch, turn or quick short pass but other than that, he's been distinctly pedestrian on the ball. Looks like he needs far more time to make a decision than he'll ever be given in the PL (he's also commented on this in interviews).
If we focus on the form that made us shell out around £70m for him, we'd note that his best performances for Leverkusen last season came in a sort of free role. He basically floated as a no10/support striker coming in from the right-hand-side. Most of his football was played high up the pitch, close to the opposition box where he was tasked with either delivering the final pass or getting on the end of an goal-scoring opportunity. He was rarely tasked with building play from the middle of the pitch and his defensive responsibilities were "light" to say the least.
At a team like Chelsea, where he's no longer a big fish in a small pond, he was never going to get a free role. He was always going to be forced to fit into a more rigid system that played to the team's strengths rather than just his own. Lampard would've (or should've) taken this into account when buying him and had in mind a system a player like Havertz could slot in. Playing him as a no10 was probably the most "sensible" option which is likely why we persisted with the 4-2-3-1 for so long at the start of the season despite our midfield not functioning at all. With the shift to 4-3-3, Havertz has been forced deeper where his talents are no longer of much use.
What worries me is that we now have a £70m passenger in our squad who doesn't really fit into our best XI.
With performances on the slide, more focus is going to be put on the transfer outlay this summer - in particular these two much-hyped germans who cost a combined £124m. If it becomes apparent that we shelled out on these players for Lampard without him having a clear picture in mind of how to use them, then serious questions will have to be asked at the end of the season...
Was there a plan for Werner and Havertz?
posted on 27/12/20
Was quite clear that we required a natural left-footer in midfield to change the dynamics, Havertz is one of the best around in his age bracket fits the bill (subpar form or performances in the infancy of his Chelsea career doesn’t change that)
posted on 27/12/20
Bought three of them now (Chilwell, Ziyech, Havertz), lets see how they all work in conjunction with each other few months down the line...whenever they overcome their injuries or illness.
In fact...when was the last time a side that made major changes to their Goalkeeper, Centre-half, Left-back, Right-back, Midfield, Attack starting lineup WITHOUT PRE-SEASON and there was an instant performance impact + consistency into the season without a hitch?
Also consider much of the side is u23, still learning the ropes.
Patience is a virtue.
On Werner, he has gone through goal droughts like this at Leipzig. He'll pull through.
This is a character-building period for him.
posted on 28/12/20
comment by CSTP (U1453)
posted 5 hours, 38 minutes ago
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Some good points here - especially this one:
"Maybe Havertz can work as an 8 in midfield, but again that's a problem in itself. Why are we saying 'maybe he can adapt' for a near club record signing. When you spend top dollar on a player, they should be the key player in the team and be used in their best role. Otherwise you're better off getting someone else who actually specialises in the role you want them to adapt to ie buy a proper CM instead. Or just keep Barkley."
It would be a serious waste of resources if we're trying to convert Havertz into a no8 after spending £70m on him based on performances as a no10/second striker. Someone like Aouar would've been a much better buy. Or even keeping Barkley as you suggested.
4-2-3-1 looks like the only formation that allows Werner and Havertz anywhere close to their favoured positions. But it's a formation that none of our current CM combinations fit and (as you said) is heavily dependent on having fit wingers. I fear Lampard was being somewhat naïve if he felt making the transition to this new system was realistic given the current set of players
posted on 28/12/20
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by CSTP (U1453)
posted 5 hours, 38 minutes ago
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Some good points here - especially this one:
"Maybe Havertz can work as an 8 in midfield, but again that's a problem in itself. Why are we saying 'maybe he can adapt' for a near club record signing. When you spend top dollar on a player, they should be the key player in the team and be used in their best role. Otherwise you're better off getting someone else who actually specialises in the role you want them to adapt to ie buy a proper CM instead. Or just keep Barkley."
It would be a serious waste of resources if we're trying to convert Havertz into a no8 after spending £70m on him based on performances as a no10/second striker. Someone like Aouar would've been a much better buy. Or even keeping Barkley as you suggested.
4-2-3-1 looks like the only formation that allows Werner and Havertz anywhere close to their favoured positions. But it's a formation that none of our current CM combinations fit and (as you said) is heavily dependent on having fit wingers. I fear Lampard was being somewhat naïve if he felt making the transition to this new system was realistic given the current set of players
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Havertz has played as an 8 for BL, but I get your point.
posted on 28/12/20
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
There was a plan. A fluid 4-2-3-1 with Havertz as a no.10. It just wasn’t a very good plan on many levels - first being Lampard completely disregarding what we learnt from last season with Mount being ineffective in wide positions, second how none of Kante, Kovacic nor Jorginho play well in a two.
Since ripping up this plan to play a 4-3-3 my feeling is that Werner may be the odd one out, although we haven’t even seen him play as a CF yet. Havertz is the player out of the two I’m not worried about. I feel a midfield three of him a CDM and Mount could be REALLY good.
Individually I do like the profile of players Lampard has gone for. Especially in comparison to previous managers. So for all of Lampard’s inexperience at squad building he has good taste at least. The problem is Lampard’s inability to develop a system. To fine-tune it to each player’s strengths. Our wingers swap positions ten times during the game but nothing changes because collectively not a lot is done in how we plan to attack as a team. So we resort to crossing time and time again.
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The lack of system is definitely a big worry. We scraped over the line last season by relying on Giroud's goals and Pulisic's individual brilliance. Unfortunately, in doing this, we abandoned our efforts to develop a definitive style of play. This meant that we were basically starting from ground zero this year in terms of formation/system etc. On top of that, we've changed half our starting XI. These two issues combined would be challenging for an experienced manager let alone a rookie like Lampard.
This season was always going to be one full of chopping and changing as Lampard's vision of how he wants the team to play matured. The problem now is that it doesn't seem to be maturing (if it's maturing at all) in the direction that allows our marquee summer signings to thrive.
posted on 28/12/20
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by CSTP (U1453)
posted 5 hours, 38 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some good points here - especially this one:
"Maybe Havertz can work as an 8 in midfield, but again that's a problem in itself. Why are we saying 'maybe he can adapt' for a near club record signing. When you spend top dollar on a player, they should be the key player in the team and be used in their best role. Otherwise you're better off getting someone else who actually specialises in the role you want them to adapt to ie buy a proper CM instead. Or just keep Barkley."
It would be a serious waste of resources if we're trying to convert Havertz into a no8 after spending £70m on him based on performances as a no10/second striker. Someone like Aouar would've been a much better buy. Or even keeping Barkley as you suggested.
4-2-3-1 looks like the only formation that allows Werner and Havertz anywhere close to their favoured positions. But it's a formation that none of our current CM combinations fit and (as you said) is heavily dependent on having fit wingers. I fear Lampard was being somewhat naïve if he felt making the transition to this new system was realistic given the current set of players
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Havertz has played as an 8 for BL, but I get your point.
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Yeah, that's true - but perhaps the challenges faced by a no8 in the Bundesliga are a bit different to those faced in the PL. Less time on the ball would be an obvious difference.
posted on 28/12/20
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by minididi (U17584)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by CSTP (U1453)
posted 5 hours, 38 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some good points here - especially this one:
"Maybe Havertz can work as an 8 in midfield, but again that's a problem in itself. Why are we saying 'maybe he can adapt' for a near club record signing. When you spend top dollar on a player, they should be the key player in the team and be used in their best role. Otherwise you're better off getting someone else who actually specialises in the role you want them to adapt to ie buy a proper CM instead. Or just keep Barkley."
It would be a serious waste of resources if we're trying to convert Havertz into a no8 after spending £70m on him based on performances as a no10/second striker. Someone like Aouar would've been a much better buy. Or even keeping Barkley as you suggested.
4-2-3-1 looks like the only formation that allows Werner and Havertz anywhere close to their favoured positions. But it's a formation that none of our current CM combinations fit and (as you said) is heavily dependent on having fit wingers. I fear Lampard was being somewhat naïve if he felt making the transition to this new system was realistic given the current set of players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Havertz has played as an 8 for BL, but I get your point.
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Yeah, that's true - but perhaps the challenges faced by a no8 in the Bundesliga are a bit different to those faced in the PL. Less time on the ball would be an obvious difference.
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Listening to Havertz speak about the PL that seems likely.
posted on 28/12/20
If there is one thing Havertz has been able to quickly establish, It's his understanding with Tammy & Hudson-Odoi.
Especially with the latter...they seem to be in-sync on the same wavelength more often than not, when there's a passing move between the lines.
Doesn't surprise me, Hudson-Odoi has proven that he can complement any player. All-rounder.
Need to rediscover that telepathic connection between Tammy & Havertz, was short-lived.
Get that going again and will be the beginnings of something special...
posted on 28/12/20
comment by Chelseamf™®© (U1677)
posted 47 minutes ago
If there is one thing Havertz has been able to quickly establish, It's his understanding with Tammy & Hudson-Odoi.
Especially with the latter...they seem to be in-sync on the same wavelength more often than not, when there's a passing move between the lines.
Doesn't surprise me, Hudson-Odoi has proven that he can complement any player. All-rounder.
Need to rediscover that telepathic connection between Tammy & Havertz, was short-lived.
Get that going again and will be the beginnings of something special...
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How often have those 3 played together?
posted on 28/12/20
Against Barnsley lol