Southgate Ball

And nope you pivoted because your claim was baseless.

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So you say. Interesting that until a few weeks ago a lot of Chelsea fans on here were making similar comments about Mount. Curious.

Comment Deleted by Site Moderator

comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 52 minutes ago
You don't need Rice and Phillips in that team against Albania. Mount would have done well as an 8.

I'd have personally gone 4-1-4-1 really. The 1 holding midfielder would be Rice as I'd say he's better than Phillips personally speaking, the 4 in behind Kane for me would be Sterling, Foden, Grealish and Mount.
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Southgate’s never going to start that midfield. Pep’s the only manager that would set up with two number 10’s in central midfield.

I’d be surprised if Southgate goes with a team so lacking in pace as well without runners in behind. England have played their best football with pacy wide men. Rashford or Sancho will most likely play on the left.
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I meant against Albania specifically I'd have gone for that team because Sancho isn't in the squad.

If I had to go for my actual England team then I would go (with everyone fit):

Henderson
Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
Mount Henderson Foden
Sancho Kane Sterling

I think both Mount and Foden would be capable of taking the ball forward progressing through the thirds really, both technically gifted players as well in that role who can take it past a player in the midfield as I've seen recently.

It's hard to leave out Grealish, Maddison, TAA etc though. Players like Dier should just be on the bench.
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Grealish isn’t in the squad either.

I would prefer a 433, issue is that Foden as a cm is better on paper than in practice. He does his best work higher up the pitch, which is why Pep plays him there.

Having two cm’s that can allow for the attacking mid and the full backs to have a bit more attacking freedom is the way Southgate wants to go. And it’s not really a bad plan. The problem is, of course, that central midfield is the weakest position in the squad.

International managers are generally quite cautious. It’s easier to set a team up that way when you have limited time with the players, that are ever changing due to the nature of international football. Trusting players to play in positions that they play for their club in is just an obvious thing to do for most of them.

It’s why Grealish and Foden being viewed as wide players is what Southgate has done. And why Mount is trusted in the middle as he plays there regularly for his club.

comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 2 minutes ago
And nope you pivoted because your claim was baseless.

-

So you say. Interesting that until a few weeks ago a lot of Chelsea fans on here were making similar comments about Mount. Curious.
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Not sure who that was/is. That said you're hardly curious, just a bit simple.
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Another thing you’re wrong on, but go off.

comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 3 hours, 22 minutes ago
I think goals and assists is a very crude metric BK, I also largely value creativity against low-block deep-lying teams over creating chances in open games for a mid-table club. I also have discussed Foden several times in this thread if memory serves.

All entitled to our own opinions of course

In my opinion - calling Mount mediocre is ridiculous and yes he has had a better season than Grealish and Foden so far.
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Fair enough. They are all good players. Personally I would put Mount and Foden equal this season and Grealish slightly better. I’ll be honest I think you and Nick are hyperbolising to put Mount as a top 5 PL performer this season, I agree with TLLL. Of course one of our best players this season, but out of all performers in PL dunno maybe makes top 10-15 if that. Re: Foden I meant more discussing Foden in the Mount being top 5 PL player of the season debate.

Comment Deleted by Site Moderator

less of the ad hominens NPE

comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 15 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 52 minutes ago
You don't need Rice and Phillips in that team against Albania. Mount would have done well as an 8.

I'd have personally gone 4-1-4-1 really. The 1 holding midfielder would be Rice as I'd say he's better than Phillips personally speaking, the 4 in behind Kane for me would be Sterling, Foden, Grealish and Mount.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Southgate’s never going to start that midfield. Pep’s the only manager that would set up with two number 10’s in central midfield.

I’d be surprised if Southgate goes with a team so lacking in pace as well without runners in behind. England have played their best football with pacy wide men. Rashford or Sancho will most likely play on the left.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I meant against Albania specifically I'd have gone for that team because Sancho isn't in the squad.

If I had to go for my actual England team then I would go (with everyone fit):

Henderson
Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
Mount Henderson Foden
Sancho Kane Sterling

I think both Mount and Foden would be capable of taking the ball forward progressing through the thirds really, both technically gifted players as well in that role who can take it past a player in the midfield as I've seen recently.

It's hard to leave out Grealish, Maddison, TAA etc though. Players like Dier should just be on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Grealish isn’t in the squad either.

I would prefer a 433, issue is that Foden as a cm is better on paper than in practice. He does his best work higher up the pitch, which is why Pep plays him there.

Having two cm’s that can allow for the attacking mid and the full backs to have a bit more attacking freedom is the way Southgate wants to go. And it’s not really a bad plan. The problem is, of course, that central midfield is the weakest position in the squad.

International managers are generally quite cautious. It’s easier to set a team up that way when you have limited time with the players, that are ever changing due to the nature of international football. Trusting players to play in positions that they play for their club in is just an obvious thing to do for most of them.

It’s why Grealish and Foden being viewed as wide players is what Southgate has done. And why Mount is trusted in the middle as he plays there regularly for his club.
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As you say, I think the cautious mentality of managers at International level does lead to this sometimes. I do definitely think Foden and Mount can work as 8's, but looking to play on the front foot and eventually in the forward line, similar to how they do at club level.

The problem is a lot of the time I saw Walker coming inside a lot with the ball rather than getting around their wide man, Shaw wasn't exactly bombing up and down the left either, you'd want Chilwell to do that imo.

I understand why Southgate plays like he does, although I just think the side would benefit from being a little bit braver.

They don’t really play like that at club level, though. Pep doesn’t trust Foden in the middle. Mount does, but he’s got security behind him. It’s just a really difficult set up to play, even with top players and a world class coach having plenty of time to work on it on the training pitch.

Southgate should let us play with a bit more adventure, and maybe dropping Mount into central midfield alongside Rice or Henderson could be a solution, but I don’t think it’s fair to criticise him for not setting the midfield up in this particular way. There’s not a manager on the planet that would do this with these group of players and so little time to prepare.

Foden, even operating from wide positions, will always look to operate in half spaces in the forward line of City's play, he isn't a direct winger like Sane was for them. That's the role he would fulfill for England whereas Mount would be traditional number 8, being able to take the ball from a 6 or the defence, carry it/play it into the areas where the forward line attackers could do damage, I think it could be successful.

With some of the players he has, I wouldn't say he has "so little time" to prepare them. He doesn't have enough time to improve them, but he has as much time as many other managers have had this season to prepare teams. The first game against San Marino being Thursday, players joining from training early in the week gives him a couple of days preparation. It's only as much time as the likes of Arsenal in the Europa League for instance.

All the times players are off international duty is where he can find his best players, or his style of play and then find the players who can fit into that style, which granted he probably does, I just don't think it's as effective as what it could be if the team was less conservative and more free-flowing. It's not about how other managers set up, it's about giving yourself an identity.