Lunatics

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
You still don’t understand and clearly didn’t from the outset.

The point is that phobia was added as a suffix to Islam and only Islam in terms of religions (to my knowledge). Islam is a set of ideas, beliefs etc. Homophobia is about people, xenophobia is also about people.

This is the difference that I thought would have been bloody obvious but apparently not. This is why I mentioned that it was the only religion to add phobia. They added phobia deliberately to warn people off criticising the ideas of Islam.

If we were talking about mulismophobia(sic) then I have no issue. It is the addition of this suffix to a set of ideas that I oppose.

Ok?
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Apologies I misunderstood. I didn't realise that you were making a different completely pointless distinction. You are right, Islam doesn't explicitly refer to people. Neither does "xeno" which the Collins dictionary defines as "indicating something strange, different, or foreign". You will note that it refers to something rather than someone. "Homo" does actually refer to humans as a subset of hominids, but we use "homophobic," to refer specifically to gay people, not all people. Do you go around labelling people who don't like Italian cuisine as xenophobic, or do you tend to follow common usage and definition of the term?

Since the hatred and prejudice of Muslims comes specifically because they are followers of Islam, it stands to reason that it is the beliefs of the religion itself that drive the feelings. On which case, using Islamophobia seems completely reasonable. Xenophobia refers to the "foreign" aspect of people despite xeno not specifically referring to people. Islamophonia refers to the following of Islam aspect of the people it targets despite Islam not specifically referring to people.

It’s this deliberate mix up that you’re explaining is exactly why they did it in the first place mate. Criticising the religion is not criticising the people who follow the religion. They’re deliberately conflating the two to make it harder to criticise the set of ideas. ‘Oh that’s just islamophobic nonsense’ no it’s a criticism of the set of ideas or religion.

Homophobia is about people
Xenophobia is also about people, foreign people but people all the same

There’s quite a few experts who talk on this topic, you don’t have to battle with me about it. Go read what they have to say and then come to your own conclusions. I have and agree with them that the word was used deliberately to curb all criticism of Islam. This isn’t the only example of this, I mentioned already the proposal to the UN whereby Islam was the only named religion, a proposition led and sponsored by Pakistan.
It’s not a coincidence and I don’t even blame them for doing it; they’re trying their best to defend, protect and prevent criticism of their religion. I blame those who accept it like sheep, like the stupid people in education now, like the stupid Archbishop of Canterbury supporting sharia for British Muslims

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
It’s this deliberate mix up that you’re explaining is exactly why they did it in the first place mate. Criticising the religion is not criticising the people who follow the religion. They’re deliberately conflating the two to make it harder to criticise the set of ideas. ‘Oh that’s just islamophobic nonsense’ no it’s a criticism of the set of ideas or religion.

Homophobia is about people
Xenophobia is also about people, foreign people but people all the same

There’s quite a few experts who talk on this topic, you don’t have to battle with me about it. Go read what they have to say and then come to your own conclusions. I have and agree with them that the word was used deliberately to curb all criticism of Islam. This isn’t the only example of this, I mentioned already the proposal to the UN whereby Islam was the only named religion, a proposition led and sponsored by Pakistan.
It’s not a coincidence and I don’t even blame them for doing it; they’re trying their best to defend, protect and prevent criticism of their religion. I blame those who accept it like sheep, like the stupid people in education now, like the stupid Archbishop of Canterbury supporting sharia for British Muslims
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OK I see where you are coming from but it still think it makes sense with the conventional usage of the terms.

Homophobia is against gay people, despite homo not referring exclusively to gay people (although this is probably the most common usage now)

Xenophobia is against foreign people, despite xeno not referring to people itself. It uses the key part of people, "the foreigness", that causes the prejudice to name the term.

Islamophobia refers to Muslim people, or people of Islam. Again, whilst Islam doesn't refer to people, it is the key part that causes the prejudice (the following of Islam) to bame the term.

Whilst calling it Muslimophobia would work just as well, there are issues with whichever method is chosen. There are undoubtedly people who try to shut down any criticism of the religion as Islamophobic. On the other hand, people often use the fact that their are distinct terms to enable views like anti-semitism by trying to hide behind the language of zionism, which can be just as bad by allowing people to propagate such views under the guise of reasonable debate.

On the surface it’s not a big deal and it’s not something that I’m going to go to war over but there is a clear appeasement going on when it comes to Islam and these things always start with language and I can only think that it’s due to the illegal wars that we participated in and guilt from that but a huge part of this country was against those wars at the time and certainly now.
One mistake shouldn’t allow another.

Britain is a great place because it allows so much freedom and has such a great mixture of cultures, ideas and peoples. But a huge part of Britain has always been about criticism, about democratic right & freedom to criticise.
If we start chipping away at that then we lose an awful lot.
Imagine a world where you couldn’t criticise United - bliss for me but hellish for you I’d imagine.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 31 minutes ago
On the surface it’s not a big deal and it’s not something that I’m going to go to war over but there is a clear appeasement going on when it comes to Islam and these things always start with language and I can only think that it’s due to the illegal wars that we participated in and guilt from that but a huge part of this country was against those wars at the time and certainly now.
One mistake shouldn’t allow another.

Britain is a great place because it allows so much freedom and has such a great mixture of cultures, ideas and peoples. But a huge part of Britain has always been about criticism, about democratic right & freedom to criticise.
If we start chipping away at that then we lose an awful lot.
Imagine a world where you couldn’t criticise United - bliss for me but hellish for you I’d imagine.
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I agree with your sentiment about criticism, and as an atheist I strongly believe that religion should be open to criticism.

I think the issue arises from trying to balance conflicting positions. Religion has always been one of the markers that has justified the abuse of specific peoples. Crusades, holocaust, the forcible conversions through colonialism with the justification that people who don't follow ones own religion are not God's people and are in some way lesser.

Obviously we have in many ways progressed since then and, certainly in Britain, have a much more inclusive society than in the past. It remains true that there are some mental fringes still about sight as Islamic extremists in the middle-east and the Christian fundamentalists in the US.

Protecting the rights of minority religions needs to be balanced with the ability to criticise parts of that religion, and individuals who propagate the religion, but we also need to not allow the abuse to happen just because it is couched behind claims of legitimate criticism.

I think you all have a bit of JAphobia

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word means "Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims

Oxford English Dictionary adjective
prejudiced or hostile toward Jews:

Fear is the fundamental difference and my entire point.
It’s not that difficult or understand. It’s a silly neologism ‘with the aim of promoting criticism of Islam to the gallery of special offences associated with racism’.

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Tbf some people including media try to include criticising Israel as antisemitism. So not much difference there really.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)

If we were talking about mulismophobia(sic) then I have no issue. It is the addition of this suffix to a set of ideas that I oppose
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You basically did similar above when referring to your 'Islamic' friends rather than 'Muslim' friends.

comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word means "Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims

Oxford English Dictionary adjective
prejudiced or hostile toward Jews:

Fear is the fundamental difference and my entire point.
It’s not that difficult or understand. It’s a silly neologism ‘with the aim of promoting criticism of Islam to the gallery of special offences associated with racism’.

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Tbf some people including media try to include criticising Israel as antisemitism. So not much difference there really.
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Yes that is also wrong

comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)

If we were talking about mulismophobia(sic) then I have no issue. It is the addition of this suffix to a set of ideas that I oppose
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You basically did similar above when referring to your 'Islamic' friends rather than 'Muslim' friends.
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No I didn’t, I’m referring to people and not in a negative context. Big difference really