Pontus

comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 20 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Elsbels - Just Some Guy (U21658)
posted 23 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 3 hours, 26 minutes ago
Really pleased for Pontus. Great player for us. Lost his way end of the 18/19 season with rash decision making but a very good player and one of only a few we signed in all that time who we actually made profit on.
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Disagree Kebab, you play to the ref's whistle, Bielsa called it wrong in the Villa match, Pontus was the only one who got it right. Bielsa dug a poor ref out of a hole.
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Would love to know the rule that referee should have used to blow his whistle in that situation? What did the ref get wrong?


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It isn't what I am saying kebab, the ref do not see a foul nor did he assess that the Villa player was injured sufficiently for him to need attention, the rule is you play to the ref's whistle, always has been. It was not Robert's nor Klich's responsibility to make that judgement, regardless of what had happened previously in the game. The ref has a responsibility to safeguard players on the pitch. Yes it is good sportsmanship for the Leeds players to kick the ball out but if the ref had assessed that the "injured" player wasn't injured they should base their decisions on the guy whose responsibility it is to make the decision.
I cannot remember, did the "injured" Villa player need treatment, was he stretchered from the pitch, did he need hospital treatment, my suspicion is the answer to all of those questions was no. Therefore the ref made the right decision in not stopping the game, the goal was legitimate and therefore Bielsa should not have told his players to let Villa score.
The goal should have stood, Bielsa made the wrong call, Pontus was right to disregard Bielsa's orders and the Villa player doing what is in their DNA should have been booked for feigning injury.

comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 20 hours, 34 minutes ago
comment by Elsbels - Just Some Guy (U21658)
posted 23 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 3 hours, 26 minutes ago
Really pleased for Pontus. Great player for us. Lost his way end of the 18/19 season with rash decision making but a very good player and one of only a few we signed in all that time who we actually made profit on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree Kebab, you play to the ref's whistle, Bielsa called it wrong in the Villa match, Pontus was the only one who got it right. Bielsa dug a poor ref out of a hole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would love to know the rule that referee should have used to blow his whistle in that situation? What did the ref get wrong?


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and to answer your question, Law 5 covers it all - https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee.

It wasn't difficult to find. It covers both reasons to stop the game and in this instance reasons not to.

Villa's complaint if they felt Kodjia was actually injured was with the ref but I doubt even they would stoop to fronting up to him.

comment by Elsbels - Just Some Guy (U21658)
posted 3 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 20 hours, 34 minutes ago
comment by Elsbels - Just Some Guy (U21658)
posted 23 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 3 hours, 26 minutes ago
Really pleased for Pontus. Great player for us. Lost his way end of the 18/19 season with rash decision making but a very good player and one of only a few we signed in all that time who we actually made profit on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree Kebab, you play to the ref's whistle, Bielsa called it wrong in the Villa match, Pontus was the only one who got it right. Bielsa dug a poor ref out of a hole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would love to know the rule that referee should have used to blow his whistle in that situation? What did the ref get wrong?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
and to answer your question, Law 5 covers it all - https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee.

It wasn't difficult to find. It covers both reasons to stop the game and in this instance reasons not to.

Villa's complaint if they felt Kodjia was actually injured was with the ref but I doubt even they would stoop to fronting up to him.
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But you’re holding two opposing views at the same time. You’re saying the ref got the decision right while at the same time the ref should have used rule 5 to stop the game.

You can’t have it both ways. I agree that the ref got the decision right and I don’t see anything in rule 5 that tells me otherwise.

Regardless of the referee's decision, it is, as you said, good sportsmanship to kick the ball out of play. That is where the issue lies. Bielsa wants his teams to win fairly, not through duplicity, or through unsportsmanlike behaviour.

It was play on after the challenge. Villa had been throwing themselves on the floor all game. Was pathetic cheating. Worst I can remember seeing at Elland Road.

We should have played on and everyone in the ground urged Roberts to.

But Roberts stopped playing and was about to kick the ball out. This meant Villa also stopped. And we then took advantage of a situation that Roberts created with a false action. Roberts was genuine in stopping, he had every intention of kicking the ball out. The crowd stopped him.

Because we had stopped it was right to give the goal back.

But really we should have played on and ignored the ‘injured’ player. If we had then it would have been fine. But the fact we stopped is what was the problem.

There is no rule in the book the ref can use to resolve that situation though. Nothing says if a player stops to kick the ball out he cannot start play again. But it’s in the gentlemanly conduct that you don’t it.

Villa were and are the anti-christ of sportsmanship - there "talisman" getting another player sent off through more play acting recently - thankfully overturned. Clearly coached to play that way.

We should've played on, but as stated above, Roberts did appear to pause and it looked like he was going to kick the ball out, but then changed. that's where it got a bit less straightforward.

comment by Lubo - Super Dooper Liam Cooper (U14008)
posted 1 day, 3 hours ago
Regardless of the referee's decision, it is, as you said, good sportsmanship to kick the ball out of play. That is where the issue lies. Bielsa wants his teams to win fairly, not through duplicity, or through unsportsmanlike behaviour.
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But, if the referee has taken a look and assessed that there was nothing wrong with the player then is it good sportsmanship to kick the ball out of play. The onus is on the ref to make that decision not Roberts and Klich. If Roberts stops in anticipation of the ref blowing up to stop the game and the ref fails to do so the ref's action, or lack of it, is a signal he should play on. The goal was legitimate, not unfair, no duplicitousness. Bielsa made the wrong decision. Moreover it isn't Bielsa's role to be the moral arbiter there, he was basically saying to Tyler and Mateusz that they scored by cheating, they didn't.

comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 1 day, 8 hours ago
comment by Elsbels - Just Some Guy (U21658)
posted 3 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 20 hours, 34 minutes ago
comment by Elsbels - Just Some Guy (U21658)
posted 23 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 3 hours, 26 minutes ago
Really pleased for Pontus. Great player for us. Lost his way end of the 18/19 season with rash decision making but a very good player and one of only a few we signed in all that time who we actually made profit on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree Kebab, you play to the ref's whistle, Bielsa called it wrong in the Villa match, Pontus was the only one who got it right. Bielsa dug a poor ref out of a hole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would love to know the rule that referee should have used to blow his whistle in that situation? What did the ref get wrong?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
and to answer your question, Law 5 covers it all - https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee.

It wasn't difficult to find. It covers both reasons to stop the game and in this instance reasons not to.

Villa's complaint if they felt Kodjia was actually injured was with the ref but I doubt even they would stoop to fronting up to him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

But you’re holding two opposing views at the same time. You’re saying the ref got the decision right while at the same time the ref should have used rule 5 to stop the game.

You can’t have it both ways. I agree that the ref got the decision right and I don’t see anything in rule 5 that tells me otherwise.
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No Kebab asked under what rule could the ref have stopped the game, I am pointing out that it is covered under law 5. The ref didn't think that the "injury" was sufficient for him to stop the game under law 5, it is his call. Bielsa either believed the player was injured enough and that the ref had got it wrong or that because Villa had kicked the ball out previously we somehow owed it to them to reciprocate which is just nonsense.

In Liverpool's CL comeback against Barcelona, all commentators were lauding Trent Alexander-Arnold for the quick thinking at the corner kick but if you watch the video, he places the ball in the quadrant and then starts walking away. Barcelona players also react to that action and stop. TAA then quickly takes the corner kick and a goal is scored. Based on Roberts actions being similar (Roberts only slows down with the ball still at his feet), why is the Leeds goal wrong?

1:13 into this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buoMlAshKXQ

The reason why Bielsa chose to give the ball back was not because we played on while the Villa player was down.

It was because Roberts stopped to kick the ball out and then changed his mind.

Ref was right to play on following the Cooper challenge because no foul and no serious injury. So no rule the ref could have used.

Also no ref to stop the game once Roberts in possession and makes Villa think we are kicking it out.

If Roberts hadn’t stopped there would have been no problem. But we also probably wouldn’t have scored either