Pogba

DDD, you may be right, though I think the differences in stats in part reflect the difference between the roles they are asked to play, in addition to the respective performance levels, e.g. the tackling stats demonstrate that Tielemans' Leicester are playing more of a high pressing game than Pogba's United, which in turn probably impacts the stats relating to what happens when Tielemans wins the ball. To be honest, I don't know to what extent I should trust the evidence of my eyes vs stats. I've heard people saying that Fred outperforms Bissouma on various metrics, and back in the day Herrera was supposed to be winning the ball more than Kante. That's not to say "you can't trust stats" - just I'm confused by the disconnect between the undeniable evidence and my subjective impressions.

And again, I'm not coming at this from an anti-Pogba perspective. I think he's a superb player who will always be more effective in a three-man midfield.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 36 seconds ago

To be honest, I don't know to what extent I should trust the evidence of my eyes vs stats.

And again, I'm not coming at this from an anti-Pogba perspective. I think he's a superb player who will always be more effective in a three-man midfield.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if everyone's eyes were as trustworthy as yours, i would never quote another stat (honest. probably). but people show on here every day that their eyes are faulty, clouded by biases and prejudices and all sorts of nasties. and i think that is nowhere more true than with pogba.

and yes, i agree on the latter point, and that is really where we played him vs leeds and southampton - he was not, and never will be, a left winger. that is where i prefer him, though with thin options behind him for the 2 (matic can barely play 90 minutes these days, let alone 90 minutes 2-3 times a week) it takes a scottish tweaked groin for pogba to be moved back.

unless...nah...surely not....donny?

I'm very much with you regarding bias against Pogba. A case in point was the Euros, where I thought Pogba was France's best player, with Ballon d'Or level passing. He was world class in the Switzerland game, central to France exerting control, scored a beautiful goal, and then in the dying moments received a pass when three Swiss midfielders were converging on him, got mugged, and although the French defence had to make another couple of mistakes for that dispossession in midfield to turn into an equaliser, we were awash with the 'defensively dodgy Pogba costs his side' narrative.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
I'm very much with you regarding bias against Pogba. A case in point was the Euros, where I thought Pogba was France's best player, with Ballon d'Or level passing. He was world class in the Switzerland game, central to France exerting control, scored a beautiful goal, and then in the dying moments received a pass when three Swiss midfielders were converging on him, got mugged, and although the French defence had to make another couple of mistakes for that dispossession in midfield to turn into an equaliser, we were awash with the 'defensively dodgy Pogba costs his side' narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He also put a slide rule pass through for Mbappe in extra time which he sliced horribly wide

comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 55 minutes ago
Don't think there's a player anywhere ever that gets critiqued as much as Pogba about the things he supposedly doesn't offer a football team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of it really is bizarre.

This whole idea some people have that he poisons the dressing room or lacks professionalism - it literally comes from absolutely nowhere. By all accounts the exact opposite is true.

I've always had my suspicions about there being a more sinister root to all of it...but that's for another discussion I guess.

comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 55 minutes ago
Don't think there's a player anywhere ever that gets critiqued as much as Pogba about the things he supposedly doesn't offer a football team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of it really is bizarre.

This whole idea some people have that he poisons the dressing room or lacks professionalism - it literally comes from absolutely nowhere. By all accounts the exact opposite is true.

I've always had my suspicions about there being a more sinister root to all of it...but that's for another discussion I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

When they say 'dabbing' what they're really talking about is...

Pogba is a very good players, just gets wasted because we don't have a quality cdm next to him.

As for Madrid, the only reason he won't go there is because they might not want to pay him 300k a week, if they're getting Haaland and Mbappe in the summer.

I don't think he would choose United over Madrid, if they really wanted him.

To be fair to Pogba I think it expectation and perception that could be causing the negative opinions.

When he's disciplined and plays a part in the team as a whole being solid people say he's not done much.

When he's playing well and creating, but then makes a smallish error, he's said to be a liability.

I think people expect a bit too much of him at times in terms of the spectacular. I still think he'd work better in a 3 though as that would allow him a bit more freedom to showcase his creative skills.

Just occurred to me: if we *really* want to get to the bottom of this common tendency to berate Pogba for disproportionately to the flaws in his game, maybe we should just ask Graeme Souness?

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
I'm very much with you regarding bias against Pogba. A case in point was the Euros, where I thought Pogba was France's best player, with Ballon d'Or level passing. He was world class in the Switzerland game, central to France exerting control, scored a beautiful goal, and then in the dying moments received a pass when three Swiss midfielders were converging on him, got mugged, and although the French defence had to make another couple of mistakes for that dispossession in midfield to turn into an equaliser, we were awash with the 'defensively dodgy Pogba costs his side' narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly and no criticism of Benzema poor giving it to him when surrounded by 3 players either.