Russell Brand

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I know this is long after the discussion has died, but UWW's final contributions are just as ridiculous as his first sweeping statement. It's a deeply cynical view of the world - "they all lie / they're all corrupt / they are all the same" - which suggests there's no point trying to make things better. The fact is, there are differences, there are choices, and if we complacently sit back and sign that they're all as bad as each other and democracy is pointless, we end up edging from degraded democracy towards none at all. If you've experienced (for instance) Putin's Russia, you'll know that there IS a significant difference between living in a system where the liars have more or less total control and one like the UK where the truth is contested, and while the PM can routinely get away with baldly lying, there are information sources pointing this out to many millions of people. There's also a vast difference between our degrading democracy and e.g. that of Germany, which has a much healthier and much more truth-based political discourse (despite the c. 10% who are voting for lying populists). It's very important to make these distinctions, because it shows us that we do have options, that there are better possibilities as well as worse scenarios. May's government was much less dishonest than Johnson's for instance. And Cameron as PM created misleading narratives but I don't remember it actually coming out with factual lies as May occasionally did. Everyone can come to their own conclusions about Labour's policies, but it's simply false - a lie, actually - to claim that Keir Starmer is comparable to Boris Johnson when it comes to the veracity of his statements. One is a serial liar, a total bullsh*tter, and the other is pretty careful to say nothing that can't be backed up with facts. (He's also a much less effective politician.)

We have a duty to have zero tolerance for political lies. That's impossible without a certain amount of discrimination. Cynicism of UWW's sort oozes out the grease that lubricates the slide toward authoritarianism which we're already seeing in the UK.

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Didn't Churchill say Democracy is the worst system, just better than all the others approximately?
Never liked Churchill, but agree with this.

comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 11 seconds ago
Didn't Churchill say Democracy is the worst system, just better than all the others approximately?
Never liked Churchill, but agree with this.
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Good old Winston didn't like us very much

comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 26 minutes ago
Red Russian - this is going to happen through the back door. The stuff that happens behind the scenes leads to millions people dying. Maybe some of these guys have good intentions but when they do get elected into power such as Obama, it’s the same old, same old. The powerful individuals behind the scenes lobbying governments and bankrolling government, in the end win. The press is designed this way. The whole system is. The system itself is corrupt and a sham, so I personally can’t expect anything positive from it when at its foundation it’s rotten
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So free press, individual liberties, right to vote, rule of law, separation of powers - all pointless, right? Honestly, people who come out with this have nearly always lived cosseted lives with no experience of the absence of these things. Try living in Russia and experience a world where there's zero accountability or political competition, no separation of powers, judges can be bought and the justice system serves the will of the politicians, corruption is on a totally different level, not to mention war crimes and terrorism on the foreign policy front.

It's hugely irresponsible to say what we have - a seriously degraded democracy - has nothing to lose. We have to protect what we have and fight for something better.

RR, you mention war crimes. Where will British war criminals be tried? I think the UK government has banned any charges being laid against armed forces members. I could be wrong, but I'm sure it was in relation to N.I.

comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 33 minutes ago
RR, you mention war crimes. Where will British war criminals be tried? I think the UK government has banned any charges being laid against armed forces members. I could be wrong, but I'm sure it was in relation to N.I.
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I'm not defending the UK government. Just saying don't assume it can't be worse. That was the fatal error that too many people made in Weimar Germany.

I’ve really enjoyed reading your discourses above, Red Russian. I think you write very well.

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