Sharing some bits about Casemiro that I've come across this week.
Firstly, this profile of him as a player: https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/casemiro-manchester-united-real-madrid-scout-report/
It largely sings his praises in terms of his defensive attributes: clever positioning to screen defence and cut off passing angles, good at angling his approaches to opposition players to minimise their ability to wriggle away, and at using his upper body to destabilise them. Also points out that he's a good long passer, particularly long diagonal balls to the wings. In terms of short passing, characterises him as accurate but unambitious: he'll tend to deliver the ball to more talented creative players. As Kroos and Modric have slowed down a bit, he has sometimes played further forward when Real are in possession in order to create space for them to drop deeper and collect the ball. Generally in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 diamond he will be the deepest midfielder in the defensive phase.
The other thing is a podcast that came out this week in the 'Devil in the Details' series, which you can find wherever you get your podcasts, as they say. This is hosted by a couple of tactics/stats geeks and in general I find it quite useful, albeit a bit dry. In this week's episode they invited a fellow geek who focuses on Real Madrid to talk about Casemiro in more detail. He basically endorsed everything I've paraphrased from the article, and generally says Casemiro will definitely improve United's midfield. He did bring a few caveats though.
First, while he doesn't think Casemiro looks like he's on the brink of physical decline, he mentioned that over the last couple of seasons he has started in bad form, before getting up to speed around the time of the CL group stages. Suggests that age is a risk when you think of the outlay and wages - which I think we all knew.
He also raises Casemiro's limitations with the ball at his feet. Not that he's bad - he mentions that Casemiro started out as a striker, and also picks out his ability to hit quality long balls (sometimes pinging them without looking first). However, he confirms what I think we understood that he's not the guy to rely on as the key man passing the ball out of defence, and says he can sometimes be got at with an aggressive high press.
Interesting reflection was that at Real there was a reliance on Modric and Kroos to basically roam and improvise their way to advancing the ball, where at United Casemiro will be in a system that we can expect to deploy more rehearsed patterns of collective movement. From that point of view, we'll see him in quite a different context, possibly one that gives him more protection, and maybe we'll see dimensions to his game that weren't so evident at Real, in addition to testing him in different ways.
At the end the podcast hosts speculated that maybe one of the factors motivating Casemiro's move might be the chance to broaden his legacy. At Real he has been seen as the guy who (hugely successfully) does the dirty work for the artists, while at United he might be required to show a bit more of what he's capable of as a footballer.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how he slots in (next to Frenkie, eh Diafol?).
Casemiro
posted on 26/8/22
The most important thing about the Casemiro signing is his character. We actually haven’t had this kind of character in the midfield since Roy Keane. Players like that help raise the level of others, even if they are not the most talented in the team.
Will be interesting to see how Fred pairs with him in a United shirt. They play well together for Brazil, by all accounts, but it’s a totally different set of players, manager and opposition so can’t really garner too much from that - Shaw and Maguire’s recent exploits for England tell us just that.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 4 minutes ago
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These are very reasonable questions to raise, Fridgeboy. There's definitely a risk in dangling lots of money in front of ageing stars and we've not done well in that department previously. Due to past failures, we're approaching the transfer from a position of weakness, so inevitably we don't often have the pick of the best players coming into their prime (like the one Real signed as Casemiro's long-term successor!). However, in general, I'd like to see us relying more on younger, hungrier players who will improve. To be fair, Malacia, Lisandro and Antony (if he comes) fall into that category.
A couple of caveats. One is that we should treat every case based on its specifics. Buy too many fading stars and you're likely to have problems with motivation and stamina. But there will be some whose ambition is as fierce as ever and who buy into the project. We'll keep our fingers crossed that Casemiro falls into that category.
The other is that (having noted the lack of leadership and the psychological fragility of the team) Ten Hag clearly wants some experience within the squad. If Casemiro plays a big role in a cultural reset, that would add value in addition to that which we derive from his intelligent screening and cynical fouls.
posted on 26/8/22
I might be misremembering, but think I heard mentioned that the average age of United's starting team the other week was one of their youngest in quite some time.
If that's the case, then it shouldn't be that much of a concern to add the experience of a highly-decorated 30-year-old. Quite the opposite, he could bring something that the team is actually in need of, as others have mentioned.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned here (I don't know if the article covers it) is that he's also been pretty handy at Madrid in set-piece play in both boxes.
posted on 26/8/22
ioag, yeah I believe that was against Liverpool. Many fans seem to think our problems have stemmed from signing 30 year old big names, even though it’s incorrect. We’ve badly lacked experience and character in many vital positions over the years. We’ve had too many players that are past it or not at their peak in this team.
posted on 26/8/22
Yep. I think the main concern with Casemiro is that he's appeared to have become more sluggish over the past couple of years, as RR hinted at in the OP. I mistakenly put it as struggling with injuries rather than struggling for fitness in recent threads, but the worry is that it might not be the best of times for him to adapt to a higher-paced game.
All in all, I'd say we've almost looked at Casemiro more as our 5th defender than as the 3rd midfielder at Madrid. I don't know how much he might have been held back by servicing Modric's and Kroos' requirements, but I wouldn't expect him to suddenly bloom into this uber-creative midfielder and I wouldn't be looking to him as my first passing option out of the back.
posted on 26/8/22
It’s going to be interesting to see how we will use him and how he settled into a new way of playing.
That’s the bigger concern for me, ETH is a completely different coach from any Casemiro has worked under before, as far as I’m aware.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 4 minutes ago
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These are very reasonable questions to raise, Fridgeboy. There's definitely a risk in dangling lots of money in front of ageing stars and we've not done well in that department previously. Due to past failures, we're approaching the transfer from a position of weakness, so inevitably we don't often have the pick of the best players coming into their prime (like the one Real signed as Casemiro's long-term successor!). However, in general, I'd like to see us relying more on younger, hungrier players who will improve. To be fair, Malacia, Lisandro and Antony (if he comes) fall into that category.
A couple of caveats. One is that we should treat every case based on its specifics. Buy too many fading stars and you're likely to have problems with motivation and stamina. But there will be some whose ambition is as fierce as ever and who buy into the project. We'll keep our fingers crossed that Casemiro falls into that category.
The other is that (having noted the lack of leadership and the psychological fragility of the team) Ten Hag clearly wants some experience within the squad. If Casemiro plays a big role in a cultural reset, that would add value in addition to that which we derive from his intelligent screening and cynical fouls.
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You are right, you can't dismiss every high profile signing just because they're over 30. He may have come here for the money but he may surprise everyone by leaving everything out there on that pitch. Sometimes it can be the influence of one man that can change the behaviours of everyone. Look at Suarez at Liverpool. He ran after everything. Those other players will have been looking at that, particularly the younger ones and it will have rubbed off on them. Conversely, mix with the wrong sort and it can have a detrimental effect on the way you play. You've only got to look at Mbappe's latest antics to know he's picked up some poisonous bad habits from Neymar.
On Casemiro though, I think the fact that he's come from Real clouds my judgement a little. There's a feeling of entitlement about them and I've no idea if he falls into a similar category. If things go sour in a game, is he one to throw his hands in the air a bit like Ronaldo or grab the game by the scruff of the neck and lead by example? These are the unknowns but I think if you were a betting man, knowing you're dealing with someone that's downgraded significantly on account of a huge pay increase, you'd probably heavily lean on the idea that this is a player just happy to take home his huge wage every week rather than change the fortunes of the club. I could be wildly wrong though. You never know, he could be the next Cantona in terms of someone having a huge effect on the club.
posted on 26/8/22
I think Casemiro will be used in the same mould as TH did with Alvarez at Ajax in a double pivot with Gravenberch.
He would be asked to drop in defence and if your manager adopt a high line to stop counter attacks.
posted on 26/8/22
Fridgeboy, I suspect he'll be somewhere in between saviour-Cantona and destroy-the-vibes Ronaldo. From the little I know about him, he seems pretty humble and professional, and obsessed with tactical understanding. He's saying the right things in interviews - but then he would, wouldn't he? Will be interesting to see.
posted on 26/8/22
comment by Boca Seniors (U19731)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
I think Casemiro will be used in the same mould as TH did with Alvarez at Ajax in a double pivot with Gravenberch.
He would be asked to drop in defence and if your manager adopt a high line to stop counter attacks.
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We now have a high-class Alvarez, but I'd be more confident if we had a Gravenberch to play beside him. Eriksen may have what it takes, but there are questions about his legs and the fact that he hasn't played a great deal in the pivot.