...but alarm bells are beginning to ring. Last night we saw more graft, passion, commitment, intensity....but we've still been humped 3 in a row, conceded 11, scored none. We've played 2 top European teams, Champions League regulars, with budgets to match but I don't think GVB should equate Champions League success with finance alone as other teams in similar positions to ourselves have shown that you can make up for lack of £££ in other ways...fitness, commitment, work-rate, tactical know-how etc. At Celtic Park we were humiliated. Of the three defeats that one at the hands of Celtic was the worst.
I'm really trying to avoid a knee-jerk reaction and hope we can turn it around on Sat v. United. Lose at home again on Sat and the pressure on GVB goes up a level, and I'm not sure he'd survive it. For me, the more relevant comparison is where we are in relation to Celtic and that is what is hard to stomach. We are still early in the season but these early indicators tell me that Celtic are playing at a higher level, have a better squad, have had better backing from the board, and - dare I say it - have a better manager?
Let me say that these are not easy things to admit, and doubts about our club are never well received on these boards. I confess to not having any inside knowledge about what's going on with the board, or a clear picture of the state of our finances, and these are nothing more than the genuine feelings and worries of a fan of 50+ years' standing. However, starting last night without any of your summer signings doesn't look good. Were these new acquisitions the manager's choice, or does he not have the final say on transfers? The football media talk highly of these players linked to Rangers ....'pace to burn' and similar ( re. Matondo, but also Sakala in an early transfer window). What happens to these apparently highly-rated gems....put a Rangers shirt on them and they're bang average
Money from the Champion's League is a huge benefit but no-one looks at our group and thinks we'll come first or second. The way things are going we may finish pointless. However, playing in our domestic league on our current form, already 5 points behind Celtic on their current form, we could be scrapping with Aberdeen and Hearts for second place.
Something needs to change, and quickly
That was better....
posted on 16/9/22
comment by HB Fash - The Madrid Minutes Folklore. 50mins ... (U21935)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
Sands a good signing
8th choice midfielder last season and an absolute bombscare at centre half this, he passes to the other side more than his own ffs.
As for wanting Gio to fail, that's not the case I wanted him to succeed but I have lost belief in him much like i think the players have.
The longer he stays now the further behind we fall, almost nobody survives 4 defeats on the trot with us so i wouldn't be upset if he is to lose another domestic game in the next while it's the next one because i think it gets him the boot.
Also for trying to absolve him of any blame in the market. Not having that, Gerrard and Wilson made decisions together so GVB and Wilson make them together. He gets at minimum half of the blame for his schitey signings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sands is what 22 and has been our best centre half, and he’s playing out of his position. Was possibly our best player against PSV over the two legs and helped get us into the CL. Who cares what he was 6 months after moving from another continent half way through the season at 21, Bassey was miles off Barisic a year ago ffs. Typical of our fan base to write off a young guy that’s been one of our best players while out of position
And tell us how did Wilson and Gerrard work together? Only Lundstram I’d put as them working together, and he was pash under Gerrard.
You do know Wilson was appointed in October 2019, so only real players that had an impact under Gerrard were Roofe, Hagi and Balogun. Roofe is good but never fit, Hagi I actually think is good but inconsistent and gets slated by half our fans, Balogun was a short term option and Wilson probably played a part in him not staying on.
I guess you must be a fan of Wilson’s other signings Itten, McLaughlin, Simpson, Zungu, Wright, Bacuna, Sakala, Ramsey, Zukowski, Ofoborh, Diallo
posted on 16/9/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 20 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 4 minutes ago
So I’m clutching at straws for being realistic
For all, I know, we could get thumped on Saturday, and Bournemouths 9-0 loss to Liverpool could look tame in a few weeks time.
Reality is, we have drawn at Easter Road which is never an easy place for us to go…..lost an old firm, which happens most seasons……and are still in with a chance of claiming 3rd in our Champions League group, which to be honest, was realistically the best we were likely to do.
Celtic in the other hand are being lauded for winning 6 games domestically, losing to Madrid and drawing with Shaktar….hold the phone, what an achievement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
St3vie. I think we’re undefeated in the league for 38 games or something like that. It’ll come to an end of course at some point, but yes; that is a hell of an achievement.
As is the turn around from the rambling shambles post Lennon with an “unknown” manager who wouldn’t supposedly last 3 months.
Rangers recent turn around in reverse is almost Lennon esque
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you’ve only drawn something like 3 of your last 30 games or something as well like, that for me is the stat that’s most likely to change
Late winners last season in several matches to save your skin
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Half the bears think Celtic are unfit and can't go the 90 minutes. The other half think they only won the league because of later winners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Oh and don't forget, Shaktar lost all their Brazilian players. Ajax lost a few decent players from last season as well and still pumped Rangers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what bears said they are unfit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
probably the same ones who think they won the 2nd half of all the games against Celtic.
Or maybe the guys who say Celtic v Rangers games don't decide the league. What was the point difference on head to head games last season? How much did Celtic win the league by?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Celtic picked up 7 points from the old firm games last season
Ranges picked up 4 points
So the points difference was 3….and the league was won by 4 points
Therefore, it was more than the old firm games that decided the title last season…ya trumpet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm....are you sure?
There is a reason these games are called 'six pointers'.
Lets take the 2-1 at Ibrox....if we had won that instead of Celtic not only would we have finished the season with 3 points more but Celtic would have ALSO finished it with 3 points less.
So instead of Celtic winning the league by four points we would have won the league by two points based on a reversal of that one OF result alone.
Of course the OF games were a massive influence on who won the league last season. But the timing and nature of the points we lost outside OF games really does make it feel that we threw it away.
We dropped points late on in games we really should have been out of sight in. But those are the things that make the difference at the end of the day....
posted on 16/9/22
If rangers had won the April game they were ahead in and looking comfortable, even if nothing else had changed, they would’ve got 7 points from the games, and Celtic 4.
So rangers would’ve ended up on 92 points, Celtic 90. To suggest the results from the Glasgow derbies didn’t decide the result of the championship is a nonsense.
posted on 16/9/22
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/9/22
comment by Humble Hamish (U21959)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 20 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 4 minutes ago
So I’m clutching at straws for being realistic
For all, I know, we could get thumped on Saturday, and Bournemouths 9-0 loss to Liverpool could look tame in a few weeks time.
Reality is, we have drawn at Easter Road which is never an easy place for us to go…..lost an old firm, which happens most seasons……and are still in with a chance of claiming 3rd in our Champions League group, which to be honest, was realistically the best we were likely to do.
Celtic in the other hand are being lauded for winning 6 games domestically, losing to Madrid and drawing with Shaktar….hold the phone, what an achievement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
St3vie. I think we’re undefeated in the league for 38 games or something like that. It’ll come to an end of course at some point, but yes; that is a hell of an achievement.
As is the turn around from the rambling shambles post Lennon with an “unknown” manager who wouldn’t supposedly last 3 months.
Rangers recent turn around in reverse is almost Lennon esque
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you’ve only drawn something like 3 of your last 30 games or something as well like, that for me is the stat that’s most likely to change
Late winners last season in several matches to save your skin
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Half the bears think Celtic are unfit and can't go the 90 minutes. The other half think they only won the league because of later winners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Oh and don't forget, Shaktar lost all their Brazilian players. Ajax lost a few decent players from last season as well and still pumped Rangers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what bears said they are unfit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
probably the same ones who think they won the 2nd half of all the games against Celtic.
Or maybe the guys who say Celtic v Rangers games don't decide the league. What was the point difference on head to head games last season? How much did Celtic win the league by?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Celtic picked up 7 points from the old firm games last season
Ranges picked up 4 points
So the points difference was 3….and the league was won by 4 points
Therefore, it was more than the old firm games that decided the title last season…ya trumpet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm....are you sure?
There is a reason these games are called 'six pointers'.
Lets take the 2-1 at Ibrox....if we had won that instead of Celtic not only would we have finished the season with 3 points more but Celtic would have ALSO finished it with 3 points less.
So instead of Celtic winning the league by four points we would have won the league by two points based on a reversal of that one OF result alone.
Of course the OF games were a massive influence on who won the league last season. But the timing and nature of the points we lost outside OF games really does make it feel that we threw it away.
We dropped points late on in games we really should have been out of sight in. But those are the things that make the difference at the end of the day....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Hammy. Better explanation than mine.
posted on 16/9/22
Itten, McLaughlin, Simpson, Zungu, Wright, Bacuna, Sakala, Ramsey, Zukowski, Ofoborh, Diallo
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont want rid of Gio right now but he does play Scott Wright regularly. That alone puts a huge question mark over his judgement.
And whoever recommended/green lit the Wright signing should no longer be associated with the club. He is so obviously miles out his depth its incredible - wasnt even getting a regular game for the sheep when we signed him!
posted on 16/9/22
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
Butterfly effect gents, If Rangers won the Ibrox game then that changes the next game, you cannot predict how the next following games go as teams respond to previous results. Its all guess work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont mean it to be taken literally that we would have won the league by two points if we had reversed the 2-1 result BTW.
I was just making the point that there is no denying the OF games are more important than the rest because you are guaranteed your nearest rivals lose the same day if you win.
posted on 16/9/22
Sands is what 22 and has been our best centre half, and he’s playing out of his position. Was possibly our best player against PSV over the two legs and helped get us into the CL. Who cares what he was 6 months after moving from another continent half way through the season at 21, Bassey was miles off Barisic a year ago ffs. Typical of our fan base to write off a young guy that’s been one of our best players while out of position
And tell us how did Wilson and Gerrard work together?Only Lundstram I’d put as them working together, and he was pash under Gerrard.
You do know Wilson was appointed in October 2019, so only real players that had an impact under Gerrard were Roofe, Hagi and Balogun. Roofe is good but never fit, Hagi I actually think is good but inconsistent and gets slated by half our fans, Balogun was a short term option and Wilson probably played a part in him not staying on.
I guess you must be a fan of Wilson’s other signings Itten, McLaughlin, Simpson, Zungu, Wright, Bacuna, Sakala, Ramsey, Zukowski, Ofoborh, Diallo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our best centre half
He misplaces every second ball ffs. Got himself caught out the other night, first a daft yellow then the pen and red. Positionally he's been decent but so was Katic. Sands though has a buy out of 5m ffs.
I'm not saying Wilson has done a great job but the managers take 50% of the blame for the signings. Under Gio's watch they have been rotten.
You seem very supportive of Gio, where have we improved under him?
posted on 16/9/22
I personally think Ross Wilson takes a lot more of the blame than Gio.
I agree that Gio seems to be more of a head coach than anything.
There has to be a degree of trust from the head coach/manager in the Sporting Director and his scouting system he has put in place. He can outline the type of players he wants to fit the way the team plays but scouting the actual players isnt really his remit IMO.
If Gio had a significant say in the exact players we signed I would expect to see more Dutch players in squad. Or some at least.
Its a bit nuts to suggest that, for example Gio had his eye on Yilmaz in Turkey or Sakala in Belgium and convinced Rangers to bring them in but then never plays them.
He may have recommended one or two but on the whole I tend to believe signings come through the guys Ross Wilson has in place. And I think that is the problem.
Ross Wilson does a great powerpoint and he talks very clearly and convincingly in that deep voice he puts on to overcompensate for being short - but does he ever come out with much more than your modern day soccer 'corporate BS'?
Does Ross Wilson really understand the game? Has he ever played the game? And I am not saying has he ever played the game to a good level - I get the impression he has barely kicked a ball in his life.
I know its not a prerequisite for sporting directors to have played the game but I am more and more beginning to get the impression that Ross Wilson is a product of this modern generation of 'Sports Management' degrees than anything else. He knows all the lingo, he is impressive to a degree when he talks but what is there behind that?
Ultimately a sporting director will be judged on the quality of the team on the park, the success the players have and the fees they can attract when they move on.
I think the board have done terrifically well to get us back to the CL and to raise the money they have from Bassey, Patterson and Aribo. But to look at that squad and fail to deal with the contract situations of Morelos and Kent, to have so many perma injured players on the books, to have too many players like Sakala and Wright who simply arent good enough - well thats a dereliction of duty.
And to look at that squad and think its Champions League ready is a total and utter embarrassment.
posted on 16/9/22
comment by HB Fash - The Madrid Minutes Folklore. 50mins ... (U21935)
posted 4 hours, 26 minutes ago
Sands is what 22 and has been our best centre half, and he’s playing out of his position. Was possibly our best player against PSV over the two legs and helped get us into the CL. Who cares what he was 6 months after moving from another continent half way through the season at 21, Bassey was miles off Barisic a year ago ffs. Typical of our fan base to write off a young guy that’s been one of our best players while out of position
And tell us how did Wilson and Gerrard work together?Only Lundstram I’d put as them working together, and he was pash under Gerrard.
You do know Wilson was appointed in October 2019, so only real players that had an impact under Gerrard were Roofe, Hagi and Balogun. Roofe is good but never fit, Hagi I actually think is good but inconsistent and gets slated by half our fans, Balogun was a short term option and Wilson probably played a part in him not staying on.
I guess you must be a fan of Wilson’s other signings Itten, McLaughlin, Simpson, Zungu, Wright, Bacuna, Sakala, Ramsey, Zukowski, Ofoborh, Diallo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our best centre half
He misplaces every second ball ffs. Got himself caught out the other night, first a daft yellow then the pen and red. Positionally he's been decent but so was Katic. Sands though has a buy out of 5m ffs.
I'm not saying Wilson has done a great job but the managers take 50% of the blame for the signings. Under Gio's watch they have been rotten.
You seem very supportive of Gio, where have we improved under him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sands has the third highest pass percentage in the team behind Lundstram and Barisic And, he makes far more progressive passes than either, and more than Goldson. Easy to see that if you watch him.
So you’re simply wildly wrong there. That’s exactly the reason it sticks in your head when he doesn’t make a pass, because he’s actually trying to pass forward... Genuine simply a wrong opinion and the stats prove it
https://fbref.com/en/players/dccd127f/James-Sands
If you’re also trying to say Goldson has been better than him this season?? Or Souttar??? He had a poor game the other night, and probably got out of position because he’s not playing his best position. The buy out does seem high and I wouldn’t want him at cb obv, but I’m not daft to criticise him with stuff that’s just nonsense
Gio has made daft mistakes against Celtic. But he improved us in Europe, he improved us in the Cup. Gerrard bottled every cup, Gerrard failed to get us to the CL against a poorer side. We were struggling in the league before he took over and bar the Old Firms that wasn’t down to poor tactics, was players not taking chances and mistakes from McGregor.
You’ve actually defended Ross Wilson, and said should Gio should, genuinely have no idea how it’s even possible to have that view. I can understand wanting rid of Gio given how we’ve played, I’m giving him a break given we’ve weakened the xi and the signings have been poor, and clearly not what he wanted. Otherwise we’d have seen more of Ramsey, Matondo, Yilmaz etc. Wilson has to go first, no idea how anyone can look at that list and think he’s done well.