Morning all,
Just a quick article I thought I'd write about something that hit me last night while I was listening to the game - I hadn't really considered that, if Arsenal do not win the league from this point, which looks ever more likely, then a great season for them (still a great season for me, undoubtedly) will go trophyless - a feeling that us Spurs fans know very well from the Poch years.
This for me brings home to roost the argument about, say, finishing 7th, having a really inconsistent league season, but having the luck to win the FA or Carabao Cup, vs a thrilling league season where you exceed all pre season expectations, and then maybe just fall short of a prize that you were never expecting to even get close to.
Take a look at the articles and comments on the Arsenal board now, and over the last few days and weeks. Sure, you'll find the odd criticisms, but the majority of the fanbase are rightly proud of their team. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of them feel a lot more proud this season than they did in 2020, when, an awful league season saw them finish 8th, but they won the FA Cup.
If we (Spurs) had somehow managed to fluke our way to a 0-0 and a win on penalties in that Carabao Cup final vs City, again at the end of an awful season when we sacked Jose, would that have made me more proud than finishing 2nd under Poch? Absolutely no chance.
Just something to think about when judging clubs and seasons (and even players!) on trophies won. Arsenal fans, despite feeling a little disheartened this morning, surely you feel more proud of your team now than you did after those FA Cup wins that came during much poorer seasons. Interested to hear your thoughts!
Trophies vs Good League Season
posted on 27/4/23
comment by 2-4-5 Trioxin (U22016)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by SpursBoy101 (U21819)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by 2-4-5 Trioxin (U22016)
posted 14 minutes ago
Arsenal have had a better season than Utd but id rather a Cup and top 4 even if it is the Worst Cup u could possibly win.
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Have they, then?
As that's a slight contradiction. So, assuming United get top four, having already won the Carabao Cup (let's assume they lose the FA Cup Final), are you saying you think that Utd have had a better season than Arsenal?
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It depends on what u judge them by Tropies or Title Charge!
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I suppose this is the point of my article - winning a trophy doesn't automatically guarantee that a team has had a better season than a team that doesn't, otherwise we would all categorically say that Utd have had a better season than Arsenal.
posted on 27/4/23
comment by SpursBoy101 (U21819)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by 2-4-5 Trioxin (U22016)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by SpursBoy101 (U21819)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by 2-4-5 Trioxin (U22016)
posted 14 minutes ago
Arsenal have had a better season than Utd but id rather a Cup and top 4 even if it is the Worst Cup u could possibly win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have they, then?
As that's a slight contradiction. So, assuming United get top four, having already won the Carabao Cup (let's assume they lose the FA Cup Final), are you saying you think that Utd have had a better season than Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It depends on what u judge them by Tropies or Title Charge!
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I suppose this is the point of my article - winning a trophy doesn't automatically guarantee that a team has had a better season than a team that doesn't, otherwise we would all categorically say that Utd have had a better season than Arsenal.
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Well what would u rather The League Cup and 4th or 0 trophies and 2nd?
posted on 27/4/23
comment by 2-4-5 Trioxin (U22016)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by SpursBoy101 (U21819)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by 2-4-5 Trioxin (U22016)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by SpursBoy101 (U21819)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by 2-4-5 Trioxin (U22016)
posted 14 minutes ago
Arsenal have had a better season than Utd but id rather a Cup and top 4 even if it is the Worst Cup u could possibly win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have they, then?
As that's a slight contradiction. So, assuming United get top four, having already won the Carabao Cup (let's assume they lose the FA Cup Final), are you saying you think that Utd have had a better season than Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It depends on what u judge them by Tropies or Title Charge!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose this is the point of my article - winning a trophy doesn't automatically guarantee that a team has had a better season than a team that doesn't, otherwise we would all categorically say that Utd have had a better season than Arsenal.
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Well what would u rather The League Cup and 4th or 0 trophies and 2nd?
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Depends on so many things - the previous season, the look of the team, the average age of the team etc.
I would argue that for Arsenal, for example, the way this season has gone (playing brilliant football, getting out of the cups nice and early allowing for a decent title challenge, blooding young players) has had a far more significant impact than if they were now 5th or 6th but had won the Carabao Cup. Just my take on it.
posted on 27/4/23
I’d rather try for the glory of the Premier League than worry about two trivial domestic cups (in both the top teams play their reserves in the early rounds). Football is about aiming for glory & fulfilling dreams, I’m not going to care much in 20 years about winning the FA Cup again or winning the Carabao(?) Cup - but winning the Premier League or Champions League is a lifetime memory.
posted on 27/4/23
comment by ItsAboutTheBackFour (U9916)
posted 33 seconds ago
I’d rather try for the glory of the Premier League than worry about two trivial domestic cups (in both the top teams play their reserves in the early rounds). Football is about aiming for glory & fulfilling dreams, I’m not going to care much in 20 years about winning the FA Cup again or winning the Carabao(?) Cup - but winning the Premier League or Champions League is a lifetime memory.
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I agree. It sounds ridiculous to say, in principle, but those recent FA Cup wins for Arsenal - great on paper, great days out for the fans I'm sure, but, what did they really do for the club at that point in time? They might as well not have won them, in terms of the effect that fact that they did win them had on player recruitment, finances etc. As I said previously, looking at their board on here, their fans online and just the general feel you get coming out of Arsenal right now, they are much happier and more optimistic for the future right now than after any of those recent FA Cup wins.
posted on 27/4/23
Not an Arsenal fan but I'd say league performance is a better gauge of how a team had performed over the season and likely a better indicator of potential for sustained challenging and successes.
I'd love it if United won the FA Cup, as I did when we won the League Cup. Enjoyed them far more than coming 2nd in the league. But there's little doubt that Arsenal are currently a better side than we are
posted on 27/4/23
Spurs achieve neither so their fans don’t have a frame of reference
posted on 27/4/23
comment by ItsAboutTheBackFour (U9916)
posted 3 hours, 6 minutes ago
I’d rather try for the glory of the Premier League than worry about two trivial domestic cups (in both the top teams play their reserves in the early rounds). Football is about aiming for glory & fulfilling dreams, I’m not going to care much in 20 years about winning the FA Cup again or winning the Carabao(?) Cup - but winning the Premier League or Champions League is a lifetime memory.
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Change of tune after years of Arsenal fans saying Spurs getting to CL final or 5 years in a row in top 4 is not does not constitute a good season
I am with people not winning a trophy means not a good season.
posted on 27/4/23
comment by CFC: Quad stoppers (U20729)
posted 54 minutes ago
Spurs achieve neither so their fans don’t have a frame of reference
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You don't count. Plastic does not count
posted on 27/4/23
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 3 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by ItsAboutTheBackFour (U9916)
posted 3 hours, 6 minutes ago
I’d rather try for the glory of the Premier League than worry about two trivial domestic cups (in both the top teams play their reserves in the early rounds). Football is about aiming for glory & fulfilling dreams, I’m not going to care much in 20 years about winning the FA Cup again or winning the Carabao(?) Cup - but winning the Premier League or Champions League is a lifetime memory.
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Change of tune after years of Arsenal fans saying Spurs getting to CL final or 5 years in a row in top 4 is not does not constitute a good season
I am with people not winning a trophy means not a good season.
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I haven’t changed my tune, I have always said this, if you are not in the title race or Champions League then a ‘domestic’ Cup is a nice bonus - but that’s all.