Lawwell

comment by Globaled (U7198)
posted 5 hours, 2 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 11 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Globaled (U7198)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
Sadly, once again, the best team in the SPL proves that it doesn't belong in European competitions.
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What?


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Ginger,

Is Rodgers also laughing???
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All the way to the bank with some of the loot we plunder from the European competitions we don’t belong in I’d guess.

comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 6 hours ago
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 4 hours, 50 minutes ago
So whats the solution ???


appoint a forward thinking manager like the last one, invest in players that suit his style of play

get rid of the board members who have presided over decades of god awful performances in Europe

full overhaul of the youth set-up. I think I'm correct in saying Chris McCart is still in charge?

get the GB and Bhoys sitting together for home games to help create some sort of atmosphere, the Celtic park atmosphere on european nights is the biggest myth of all time.

actually use tactics to suit each game rather than trying to play the one way every game whether it's against Real Madrid of Cluj
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I was saying last week how something is incredibly broken with our youth set-up and the lack of path to the first team for players in the B team.

Tierney is the last one we brought through and that's almost a decade ago now.
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Since Tierney you have also brought through Ralston, Welsh, and current Irish international Mikey Johnston. That's not bad going. If you expect them all to come through at Tierny's level you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Bit of a drop off between Tierney and Walsh, Ralston etc. Think that was his point tbh.

That said I personally think most fans expectations of their academies are unrealistic.


When in the past 30-40 years have Celtic/Rangers regularly produced bona fide first team players?

Sure sometimes one or two come through at the same time but it’s a very very difficult trick to pull off.

I have heard this stat a couple of times;

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/what-percentage-college-football-players-make-nfl

Only 1.6 percent of US college American football players make it to the NFL. Say the average college American football squad has 60ish players in it at any one time - that means 1 of those players per college per year will make it to the NFL.

So with all the facilities, coaches, millions of dollars etc ploughed into these college programs still only 1 player per year on average per college will make it out of 60.

And thats not to say they will make it with one of the top teams (ie a Rangers/Celtic equivalent). The stat just relates to having any sort of NFL career.

So if you take that back to Rangers/celtic who maybe have a B team squad if 20 in any given year….you could hope one of those players every couple of years to have a top level career. The chance of producing a first team player at Rangers or Celtic is even lower than that.

These numbers don’t feel too unfamiliar from what I have seen. If Tavs wasn’t our immovable captain the Nathan Patterson could be considered to be of the standard of a first team regular for rangers. And over that roughly similar period we have produced Lewis Mayo (Killie) and Stephen Kelly (Livvy) who I would say are established Premiership players plus Billy Gilmour was one of ours to a point and Lowry/McCausland who have both shown potential but neither have established themselves fully.

I completely agree that fans should want more out their youth programs but how realistic is it actually that either club produces a proper first team regular and more than once every 5-10 years?

comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 9 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 6 hours ago
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 4 hours, 50 minutes ago
So whats the solution ???


appoint a forward thinking manager like the last one, invest in players that suit his style of play

get rid of the board members who have presided over decades of god awful performances in Europe

full overhaul of the youth set-up. I think I'm correct in saying Chris McCart is still in charge?

get the GB and Bhoys sitting together for home games to help create some sort of atmosphere, the Celtic park atmosphere on european nights is the biggest myth of all time.

actually use tactics to suit each game rather than trying to play the one way every game whether it's against Real Madrid of Cluj
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was saying last week how something is incredibly broken with our youth set-up and the lack of path to the first team for players in the B team.

Tierney is the last one we brought through and that's almost a decade ago now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since Tierney you have also brought through Ralston, Welsh, and current Irish international Mikey Johnston. That's not bad going. If you expect them all to come through at Tierny's level you're going to be sorely disappointed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralston had one good season but is not first team quality. He fills a hole at domestic level but only just.

Welsh.. 🤷‍♂️ He's never proven himself.

Johnston you could argue would've been good enough for the first team but injury and never being able to put any form together has seen to him.

Hardly three ringing endorsements that our youth setup is healthy.

comment by Humble Hamish (U21959)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Bit of a drop off between Tierney and Walsh, Ralston etc. Think that was his point tbh.

That said I personally think most fans expectations of their academies are unrealistic.


When in the past 30-40 years have Celtic/Rangers regularly produced bona fide first team players?

Sure sometimes one or two come through at the same time but it’s a very very difficult trick to pull off.

I have heard this stat a couple of times;

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/what-percentage-college-football-players-make-nfl

Only 1.6 percent of US college American football players make it to the NFL. Say the average college American football squad has 60ish players in it at any one time - that means 1 of those players per college per year will make it to the NFL.

So with all the facilities, coaches, millions of dollars etc ploughed into these college programs still only 1 player per year on average per college will make it out of 60.

And thats not to say they will make it with one of the top teams (ie a Rangers/Celtic equivalent). The stat just relates to having any sort of NFL career.

So if you take that back to Rangers/celtic who maybe have a B team squad if 20 in any given year….you could hope one of those players every couple of years to have a top level career. The chance of producing a first team player at Rangers or Celtic is even lower than that.

These numbers don’t feel too unfamiliar from what I have seen. If Tavs wasn’t our immovable captain the Nathan Patterson could be considered to be of the standard of a first team regular for rangers. And over that roughly similar period we have produced Lewis Mayo (Killie) and Stephen Kelly (Livvy) who I would say are established Premiership players plus Billy Gilmour was one of ours to a point and Lowry/McCausland who have both shown potential but neither have established themselves fully.

I completely agree that fans should want more out their youth programs but how realistic is it actually that either club produces a proper first team regular and more than once every 5-10 years?

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It's a bit different with the NFL and football as there are only a select few clubs in the NFL.

Across Europe there a dozens more top flight clubs. 858 college football teams with squads totalling 125 players vying for places in 32 NFL teams isn't really equivalent to our youth structure or the youth setup across all football.

i don't trust our youth setup, it's jobs for the boys.

the best coaches we can find are o'dea and mcmanus, who just so happened to be old players.

that was the extent to which we scoured the globe for the best youth coach to develop our talent?

lazy nonsense/

comment by JFK (U8919)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
i don't trust our youth setup, it's jobs for the boys.

the best coaches we can find are o'dea and mcmanus, who just so happened to be old players.

that was the extent to which we scoured the globe for the best youth coach to develop our talent?

lazy nonsense/
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Rangers have a Belgian Academy Director who is only 32 it think and never played the game professionally - plus we have just recruited a second Belgian of roughly the same age in a senior position.

It will be interesting to see if it changes anything.

you need to recruit well in these positions as well.

point blank refuse to believe we looked further than mcmcanus.

There's yer Shane McGowan (65) deid

Amazed he made it to that age tbh.....

Seemed to have been on a self destruction path since about 12

comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 2 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by Humble Hamish (U21959)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Bit of a drop off between Tierney and Walsh, Ralston etc. Think that was his point tbh.

That said I personally think most fans expectations of their academies are unrealistic.


When in the past 30-40 years have Celtic/Rangers regularly produced bona fide first team players?

Sure sometimes one or two come through at the same time but it’s a very very difficult trick to pull off.

I have heard this stat a couple of times;

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/what-percentage-college-football-players-make-nfl

Only 1.6 percent of US college American football players make it to the NFL. Say the average college American football squad has 60ish players in it at any one time - that means 1 of those players per college per year will make it to the NFL.

So with all the facilities, coaches, millions of dollars etc ploughed into these college programs still only 1 player per year on average per college will make it out of 60.

And thats not to say they will make it with one of the top teams (ie a Rangers/Celtic equivalent). The stat just relates to having any sort of NFL career.

So if you take that back to Rangers/celtic who maybe have a B team squad if 20 in any given year….you could hope one of those players every couple of years to have a top level career. The chance of producing a first team player at Rangers or Celtic is even lower than that.

These numbers don’t feel too unfamiliar from what I have seen. If Tavs wasn’t our immovable captain the Nathan Patterson could be considered to be of the standard of a first team regular for rangers. And over that roughly similar period we have produced Lewis Mayo (Killie) and Stephen Kelly (Livvy) who I would say are established Premiership players plus Billy Gilmour was one of ours to a point and Lowry/McCausland who have both shown potential but neither have established themselves fully.

I completely agree that fans should want more out their youth programs but how realistic is it actually that either club produces a proper first team regular and more than once every 5-10 years?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bit different with the NFL and football as there are only a select few clubs in the NFL.

Across Europe there a dozens more top flight clubs. 858 college football teams with squads totalling 125 players vying for places in 32 NFL teams isn't really equivalent to our youth structure or the youth setup across all football.
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Although i was only trying to make a point - I am not sure the numbers are as slanted or as different as you have presented. I still think there is some interesting value in the comparison.

NFL draft data from 2019 Draft;

Approximate # Draft Eligible = 16,380
# Draft Picks = 254
# NCAA Drafted = 254
% NCAA to Major Pro = 1.6%

I get that only so many draft picks are allowed but the point is their system of coaching, developing and scouting players should provide the best of the best for the draft picks.

It is estimated that only 30% of those drafted in a year will ever make it onto an NFL roster - and thats not to say that the 30% will play for top/successful teams or be regulars. They might be third or fourth choice in their position for their NFL career (which only averages 3 years btw).

Applying that 30% success rate to the 32 NFL teams it roughly works out as an average of just over 2 players a year per team will ever make it onto a roster of ~50 players.

If you applied those output figures to football - just for shats and giggles - thats roughly the equivalent of 12 developed players a season coming into the matchday squads across our top league - on average. Some teams might have one, some a couple, others might have none. That doesnt seem too far off for me.

We currently have Adam Devine, Leon King, Ross McCausland and Robbie McCrorie as part of our first team squad - so maybe roughly in line with one a season over recent years?

My point is that whilst some clubs will undoubtedly do better than us at producing players and some will do worse - it is a challenging game and I would say uniquely challenging for the OF in this country.

I do think a lot of fans think that unless we are producing 1 or 2 regular starters for the first team every year then the Academy is performing particularly badly. I am just not sure how realistic it is to do that on a sustainable basis. And I am not sure really how unusual that is in the wider world of competitive sport?