I’m reading a lot on foxestalk (and some on here) about Leicester bottling the championship title, weak mentality, remnants of the Rodgers era etc. We’ve lost 3 on the bounce - but actually, there’s a common thread between all 3 games and it’s been happening all season.
It’s been said on here more than once by a few that Maresca has no plan B. I said last week that he’s a flat track bully. He has a style of football which relies on having superior players to the opposition and being able to dominate the ball - chiefly playing out from the back, pushing the full backs up into midfield and dominating the opposition with the overload.
Against weak opposition it works. Against teams who get sucked in by the system it works. But the reason I and many others have said that this system is ridiculously short sighted is because it has a fatal flaw on two fronts.
Firstly - playing out from the back and losing your full backs is defensively high risk. We concede chances against poor opposition constantly. Do that against quality players and they punish you. Cue Leeds. It’s the reason I know that if we get promoted - this system will result in us getting battered
Secondly - it’s easy to nullify. Cue Boro, QPR, Coventry. Every team is figuring out what to do. Employ the low block, block off the spaces outside, let Leicester have the ball and then - counterpress. The moment you employ the press at the right time, the system folds like a cheap suit. The centre backs are isolated and the opposition has the overload
Now I’ll admit. The system is failing even sooner than I thought it would - but in my view, this is simply the inevitable coming to pass. This style of football is not sustainable unless you have the requisite quality of players (particularly defensively) to pull it off. And Enzo isn’t Pep. He’s a coach with absolutely no experience at this level (which again was noted at the time) and who is a facing probably the first challenge of his career
Whether we get through the other side and get promoted or not (and I still believe we will) - one thing I’m convinced of is that rather than choking - it’s just the system failing as predicted. If Maresca doesn’t get binned off at the end of this season, he will during the next. And the club will have wasted another opportunity to right the wrongs of previous failings, while Mersey keeps his fingers in his ears and pretends none of this is happening. Faith in our owners? Not for me
We’re not choking…
posted on 3/3/24
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 13 minutes ago
‘Tic fan in peace (missus is from Leicester) … Sounds like you’re still playing a version of Brendanbaw, with an Italian twist? A “style” of sleep-inducing football that has quickly sucked the life out of a squad that was flying up here under Ange. All the best for the run-in anyway. Think you’ll still make automatic promotion, as your closest rivals all seem prone to dropping points as well.
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That’s exactly it. It’s all the rage for our DoF - he basically wants us to be Man City lite. He hired Claude Puel to play like this. It didn’t work. Hired Rodgers to go with the same approach. Started off brilliantly but completely fell apart. Hired Maresca to do the same - wheels starting to fall off.
posted on 3/3/24
Still think you’ll go up autos.
posted on 3/3/24
I've just put your response to Mersey on the other thread, I mostly agree.
A few points. Most of our creativity comes down the wings, we no longer have a Maddison in the middle. Stifle that by double or even triple teaming the winger - Chair for example worked his socks off on Saturday tracking back. Keep narrow so the middle is congested and you negate the winger breaking in to the box and pulling back to onrushing midfielders. Don't worry if the winger manages to get a cross in because your massive CBs will clear the ball virtually all of the time - they are only facing midgets up front for Leicester.
I have some sympathy for Enzo, we were crying out for something different in the middle, but are now suffering with injuries (Ricky not being available is a disaster) and lack of new acquisitions; a consequence of the poor financial state we are in. Not to mention our useless DoF.
I was quite heartened by Tuesday's performance but we need to get back on track fast the season isn’t to potentially collapse.
posted on 3/3/24
comment by 99 Problems (but Rodgers ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
Just seen Merseys reply on Foxellos post (which I can’t reply to). It’s staggering. How can a poster be so consistently blind to what is going on at his own club? Even when the facts of why we are starting to fall over stare him in the face his only response is to ‘get behind the club’ because he thinks eventually everything will be fine.
It’s this thinking that saw us sleepwalk into relegation and I actually think Mersey would be better off joining Leicesters boardroom than posting on here. I told you last season Mersey we were going to end up in the championship. I told you our owners were sleepwalked to financial and footballing trouble. I’m telling you now that we have a manager playing a system that isn’t sustainable and has only worked by battering low level sides with a far superior squad.
We have the most expensively assembled side in championship history. We have Harry Winks, Ndidi, Vestergard, Vardy, KDH, Daka, Ricardo, Justin playing in the championship. They’re all PL players. To not be in the top 2 with that level of quality would be unthinkable - but somehow you seem to think Maresca and the club have performed an unfathomable miracle.
I still think we will get promoted. The players are too good. But if you can’t see that we are on the road to long term failure playing this way then I don’t know if it’s even worth debating with you anymore
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey 99. I actually agree fully with your OP, Enzo’s style of play has all the problems you’ve articulated perfectly. We just don’t have enough quality in the final 3rd to break through a low block and it’s painful. And the lack of plan B is even more painful.
My comments on the other thread are more about how the club is run, and whether we can get promoted this year. I think the appointment of Maresca was still a good one and he was backed to bring in players which, in the main, have been good enough. He as a manager changed the losing mentality and got the team to the top of the league breaking records as we did. Yes we’re going r brooch a dodgy spell and yes I agree, trying to play like this next year if we did hold on to promotion could be highly painful. But I don’t think that means the club is being badly run.
If we can correct this bad run and get promoted I’m not sure what more we could have asked of the club after going down?
posted on 3/3/24
comment by Nuneaton_fox (U7936)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
I've just put your response to Mersey on the other thread, I mostly agree.
A few points. Most of our creativity comes down the wings, we no longer have a Maddison in the middle. Stifle that by double or even triple teaming the winger - Chair for example worked his socks off on Saturday tracking back. Keep narrow so the middle is congested and you negate the winger breaking in to the box and pulling back to onrushing midfielders. Don't worry if the winger manages to get a cross in because your massive CBs will clear the ball virtually all of the time - they are only facing midgets up front for Leicester.
I have some sympathy for Enzo, we were crying out for something different in the middle, but are now suffering with injuries (Ricky not being available is a disaster) and lack of new acquisitions; a consequence of the poor financial state we are in. Not to mention our useless DoF.
I was quite heartened by Tuesday's performance but we need to get back on track fast the season isn’t to potentially collapse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this. Tuesday we looked good again and I thought we’d push on. But we went badly backwards. I think it’s time for a few players to be taken out of the team to shake it up a bit.
posted on 3/3/24
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by 99 Problems (but Rodgers ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
Just seen Merseys reply on Foxellos post (which I can’t reply to). It’s staggering. How can a poster be so consistently blind to what is going on at his own club? Even when the facts of why we are starting to fall over stare him in the face his only response is to ‘get behind the club’ because he thinks eventually everything will be fine.
It’s this thinking that saw us sleepwalk into relegation and I actually think Mersey would be better off joining Leicesters boardroom than posting on here. I told you last season Mersey we were going to end up in the championship. I told you our owners were sleepwalked to financial and footballing trouble. I’m telling you now that we have a manager playing a system that isn’t sustainable and has only worked by battering low level sides with a far superior squad.
We have the most expensively assembled side in championship history. We have Harry Winks, Ndidi, Vestergard, Vardy, KDH, Daka, Ricardo, Justin playing in the championship. They’re all PL players. To not be in the top 2 with that level of quality would be unthinkable - but somehow you seem to think Maresca and the club have performed an unfathomable miracle.
I still think we will get promoted. The players are too good. But if you can’t see that we are on the road to long term failure playing this way then I don’t know if it’s even worth debating with you anymore
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey 99. I actually agree fully with your OP, Enzo’s style of play has all the problems you’ve articulated perfectly. We just don’t have enough quality in the final 3rd to break through a low block and it’s painful. And the lack of plan B is even more painful.
My comments on the other thread are more about how the club is run, and whether we can get promoted this year. I think the appointment of Maresca was still a good one and he was backed to bring in players which, in the main, have been good enough. He as a manager changed the losing mentality and got the team to the top of the league breaking records as we did. Yes we’re going r brooch a dodgy spell and yes I agree, trying to play like this next year if we did hold on to promotion could be highly painful. But I don’t think that means the club is being badly run.
If we can correct this bad run and get promoted I’m not sure what more we could have asked of the club after going down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really Mersey? We were relegated last year through a combination of financial and footballing ineptitude. A massive contribution was not being able to buy any players in the summer 2022 window. A real problem Enzo faces right now is the lack of midfield options, due in no small measure to not being able to get a £2M transfer over the line in the last window.
Add in a string of players being allowed to run their contracts down to leave for nothing last year and this.
And you still claim the club isn't being badly run? Seriously?
posted on 3/3/24
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by 99 Problems (but Rodgers ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
Just seen Merseys reply on Foxellos post (which I can’t reply to). It’s staggering. How can a poster be so consistently blind to what is going on at his own club? Even when the facts of why we are starting to fall over stare him in the face his only response is to ‘get behind the club’ because he thinks eventually everything will be fine.
It’s this thinking that saw us sleepwalk into relegation and I actually think Mersey would be better off joining Leicesters boardroom than posting on here. I told you last season Mersey we were going to end up in the championship. I told you our owners were sleepwalked to financial and footballing trouble. I’m telling you now that we have a manager playing a system that isn’t sustainable and has only worked by battering low level sides with a far superior squad.
We have the most expensively assembled side in championship history. We have Harry Winks, Ndidi, Vestergard, Vardy, KDH, Daka, Ricardo, Justin playing in the championship. They’re all PL players. To not be in the top 2 with that level of quality would be unthinkable - but somehow you seem to think Maresca and the club have performed an unfathomable miracle.
I still think we will get promoted. The players are too good. But if you can’t see that we are on the road to long term failure playing this way then I don’t know if it’s even worth debating with you anymore
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey 99. I actually agree fully with your OP, Enzo’s style of play has all the problems you’ve articulated perfectly. We just don’t have enough quality in the final 3rd to break through a low block and it’s painful. And the lack of plan B is even more painful.
My comments on the other thread are more about how the club is run, and whether we can get promoted this year. I think the appointment of Maresca was still a good one and he was backed to bring in players which, in the main, have been good enough. He as a manager changed the losing mentality and got the team to the top of the league breaking records as we did. Yes we’re going r brooch a dodgy spell and yes I agree, trying to play like this next year if we did hold on to promotion could be highly painful. But I don’t think that means the club is being badly run.
If we can correct this bad run and get promoted I’m not sure what more we could have asked of the club after going down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mersey - where I just can’t get understand you is this;
1. We’ve hired a manager you’ve admitted is implementing a style of play that is causing us to be blunt up top and most likely will see us get hammered next season if we do go up
2. Despite the club deliberately picking a manager BECAUSE of the tactics he employs which you’ve admitted has problems - you don’t think it shows any questionable decision making from the board
Where I think you’re getting stuck is by looking at the league position and focussing on the very short term - eg we’re top and on course for a return to the championship which shows the board has got the big calls right
That’s very premature thinking in my opinion. The answer as to whether Maresca is the right pick isn’t going to be answered in March. It may not even be answered until we’ve sacked him next season when we are either in this division or rooted to the bottom of the next.
Now I’m certain he’s the wrong pick. I’m certain because I don’t get sucked in by being 12 points clear in December. I look at the quality of this squad vs the rest of the league and I know that ANY manager would have a significant advantage. I also look at the way we play and the tactics we employ and I feel that in the long term (perhaps even this season) it cannot succeed
That’s not good strategic decision making from the board. Put it this way - I think Leeds have a far better chance of staying up under Farke and the way he plays than we will next season
posted on 3/3/24
comment by Nuneaton_fox (U7936)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by 99 Problems (but Rodgers ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
Just seen Merseys reply on Foxellos post (which I can’t reply to). It’s staggering. How can a poster be so consistently blind to what is going on at his own club? Even when the facts of why we are starting to fall over stare him in the face his only response is to ‘get behind the club’ because he thinks eventually everything will be fine.
It’s this thinking that saw us sleepwalk into relegation and I actually think Mersey would be better off joining Leicesters boardroom than posting on here. I told you last season Mersey we were going to end up in the championship. I told you our owners were sleepwalked to financial and footballing trouble. I’m telling you now that we have a manager playing a system that isn’t sustainable and has only worked by battering low level sides with a far superior squad.
We have the most expensively assembled side in championship history. We have Harry Winks, Ndidi, Vestergard, Vardy, KDH, Daka, Ricardo, Justin playing in the championship. They’re all PL players. To not be in the top 2 with that level of quality would be unthinkable - but somehow you seem to think Maresca and the club have performed an unfathomable miracle.
I still think we will get promoted. The players are too good. But if you can’t see that we are on the road to long term failure playing this way then I don’t know if it’s even worth debating with you anymore
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey 99. I actually agree fully with your OP, Enzo’s style of play has all the problems you’ve articulated perfectly. We just don’t have enough quality in the final 3rd to break through a low block and it’s painful. And the lack of plan B is even more painful.
My comments on the other thread are more about how the club is run, and whether we can get promoted this year. I think the appointment of Maresca was still a good one and he was backed to bring in players which, in the main, have been good enough. He as a manager changed the losing mentality and got the team to the top of the league breaking records as we did. Yes we’re going r brooch a dodgy spell and yes I agree, trying to play like this next year if we did hold on to promotion could be highly painful. But I don’t think that means the club is being badly run.
If we can correct this bad run and get promoted I’m not sure what more we could have asked of the club after going down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really Mersey? We were relegated last year through a combination of financial and footballing ineptitude. A massive contribution was not being able to buy any players in the summer 2022 window. A real problem Enzo faces right now is the lack of midfield options, due in no small measure to not being able to get a £2M transfer over the line in the last window.
Add in a string of players being allowed to run their contracts down to leave for nothing last year and this.
And you still claim the club isn't being badly run? Seriously?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His defence of the King Power group and of Jon Rudkin in particular is astonishing
posted on 3/3/24
comment by Nuneaton_fox (U7936)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by 99 Problems (but Rodgers ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
Just seen Merseys reply on Foxellos post (which I can’t reply to). It’s staggering. How can a poster be so consistently blind to what is going on at his own club? Even when the facts of why we are starting to fall over stare him in the face his only response is to ‘get behind the club’ because he thinks eventually everything will be fine.
It’s this thinking that saw us sleepwalk into relegation and I actually think Mersey would be better off joining Leicesters boardroom than posting on here. I told you last season Mersey we were going to end up in the championship. I told you our owners were sleepwalked to financial and footballing trouble. I’m telling you now that we have a manager playing a system that isn’t sustainable and has only worked by battering low level sides with a far superior squad.
We have the most expensively assembled side in championship history. We have Harry Winks, Ndidi, Vestergard, Vardy, KDH, Daka, Ricardo, Justin playing in the championship. They’re all PL players. To not be in the top 2 with that level of quality would be unthinkable - but somehow you seem to think Maresca and the club have performed an unfathomable miracle.
I still think we will get promoted. The players are too good. But if you can’t see that we are on the road to long term failure playing this way then I don’t know if it’s even worth debating with you anymore
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey 99. I actually agree fully with your OP, Enzo’s style of play has all the problems you’ve articulated perfectly. We just don’t have enough quality in the final 3rd to break through a low block and it’s painful. And the lack of plan B is even more painful.
My comments on the other thread are more about how the club is run, and whether we can get promoted this year. I think the appointment of Maresca was still a good one and he was backed to bring in players which, in the main, have been good enough. He as a manager changed the losing mentality and got the team to the top of the league breaking records as we did. Yes we’re going r brooch a dodgy spell and yes I agree, trying to play like this next year if we did hold on to promotion could be highly painful. But I don’t think that means the club is being badly run.
If we can correct this bad run and get promoted I’m not sure what more we could have asked of the club after going down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really Mersey? We were relegated last year through a combination of financial and footballing ineptitude. A massive contribution was not being able to buy any players in the summer 2022 window. A real problem Enzo faces right now is the lack of midfield options, due in no small measure to not being able to get a £2M transfer over the line in the last window.
Add in a string of players being allowed to run their contracts down to leave for nothing last year and this.
And you still claim the club isn't being badly run? Seriously?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The club made a mistake backing Rodgers and too many players failed as did Rodgers. We’re still trying to correct that mistake and offload the expensive deadwood but it’s not that easy and doesn’t happen overnight. Players don’t want to leave/take a wage cut and we’re having to loan people out and make do.
So we’re hamstrung until that’s flushed through, but i think we made a good attempt at starting to flush it through in the summer. It’s now hard because we’re still stuck with Daka and Souttar and probably funding a load of Soumare’s wages.
It’s not quite as simple as just getting rid of Rodgers and everything is fine again!
posted on 3/3/24
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Nuneaton_fox (U7936)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by 99 Problems (but Rodgers ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
Just seen Merseys reply on Foxellos post (which I can’t reply to). It’s staggering. How can a poster be so consistently blind to what is going on at his own club? Even when the facts of why we are starting to fall over stare him in the face his only response is to ‘get behind the club’ because he thinks eventually everything will be fine.
It’s this thinking that saw us sleepwalk into relegation and I actually think Mersey would be better off joining Leicesters boardroom than posting on here. I told you last season Mersey we were going to end up in the championship. I told you our owners were sleepwalked to financial and footballing trouble. I’m telling you now that we have a manager playing a system that isn’t sustainable and has only worked by battering low level sides with a far superior squad.
We have the most expensively assembled side in championship history. We have Harry Winks, Ndidi, Vestergard, Vardy, KDH, Daka, Ricardo, Justin playing in the championship. They’re all PL players. To not be in the top 2 with that level of quality would be unthinkable - but somehow you seem to think Maresca and the club have performed an unfathomable miracle.
I still think we will get promoted. The players are too good. But if you can’t see that we are on the road to long term failure playing this way then I don’t know if it’s even worth debating with you anymore
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey 99. I actually agree fully with your OP, Enzo’s style of play has all the problems you’ve articulated perfectly. We just don’t have enough quality in the final 3rd to break through a low block and it’s painful. And the lack of plan B is even more painful.
My comments on the other thread are more about how the club is run, and whether we can get promoted this year. I think the appointment of Maresca was still a good one and he was backed to bring in players which, in the main, have been good enough. He as a manager changed the losing mentality and got the team to the top of the league breaking records as we did. Yes we’re going r brooch a dodgy spell and yes I agree, trying to play like this next year if we did hold on to promotion could be highly painful. But I don’t think that means the club is being badly run.
If we can correct this bad run and get promoted I’m not sure what more we could have asked of the club after going down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really Mersey? We were relegated last year through a combination of financial and footballing ineptitude. A massive contribution was not being able to buy any players in the summer 2022 window. A real problem Enzo faces right now is the lack of midfield options, due in no small measure to not being able to get a £2M transfer over the line in the last window.
Add in a string of players being allowed to run their contracts down to leave for nothing last year and this.
And you still claim the club isn't being badly run? Seriously?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The club made a mistake backing Rodgers and too many players failed as did Rodgers. We’re still trying to correct that mistake and offload the expensive deadwood but it’s not that easy and doesn’t happen overnight. Players don’t want to leave/take a wage cut and we’re having to loan people out and make do.
So we’re hamstrung until that’s flushed through, but i think we made a good attempt at starting to flush it through in the summer. It’s now hard because we’re still stuck with Daka and Souttar and probably funding a load of Soumare’s wages.
It’s not quite as simple as just getting rid of Rodgers and everything is fine again!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The club made a mistake letting £120m of players leave for nothing.
The club made a mistake spending what it didn’t have and putting itself under a transfer embargo directly contributing to relegation
Being stuck with players on high wages we can’t shift is partly down to the failed recruitment policy under Congerton - the DoF’s pick
Your revisionist assessment of the club is at times, mind blowing