One of our forum members advocates for a candidate who 'tells it like it is' while, as it turns out, proving reluctant to engage in the marketplace of ideas. I'm blocked from posting under the other article, and am therefore resharing/elaborating on the substantive arguments I initially made there about Nigel Farage, which were mysteriously deleted by the person who feels his brand of politics is censored.
Let's start with the basic principles of Farage's politics: his political career which has always adhered to textbook nativism, scaremongering about brown-skinned migrants, and dishonestly scapegoating immigration for the problems of the country (while proposing economic solutions that would exacerbate them, while benefiting the ruling class). For instance, when it comes to healthcare his headline proposition has been to block 'health tourists' from accessing NHS treatment as a solution to strained resources, while more quietly advocating for privatisation of the NHS. It's an established fact that health tourism represents a pin-prick in terms of the overall NHS budget, and has no relation to the chronic underfunding that comes from the UK spending a smaller % of our national income on health than most of our peers. So Farage is not providing a substantive argument to solve our problems: he is making an emotional argument that exploits fear of an alien, scapegoated group (referencing African people who are HIV+). This theme runs throughout his political modus operandi. A Brexit Leave campaign that heavily emphasized the idea of being flooded with (brown) migrants: the absurd notion of 80 million Turks joining the EU and coming over here; the disgraceful 'Breaking Point' poster showing a line of brown-skinned people; the remarks about having Romanian people move in next door. Again and again, UKIP / Reform politics addresses a complex real-world challenge and proposes a simplistic solution, which - contrary to empirical data - suggests that excessive immigration is the primary cause of our economic woes and paints a picture of a society in which migrants don't tend to assimilate and don't make a net contribution to society. This is the crux of the emotional appeal of Farage's politics, and the logic behind Reform's 'net zero immigration' policy.
We don't need killer quotes, personal associations or troubling stories from childhood to draw conclusions about Farage's politics, but they add some useful context to the picture.
From his life as a boy at posh private school Dulwich College:
A teacher wrote that he "publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson." Meanwhile one of his peers later attested that the teenage Farage sang a neo-Nazi song about Jewish people featuring the words “gas ‘em all, gas ‘em all".
In recent times Farage has voiced explicit support for and collaborated with Alex Jones, Steve Bannon, Germany's far-right AFD, France's far-right Marine Le Pen, and Hungary's leader Viktor Orbán (who combines openly racist rhetoric about Muslims and Jews with authoritarian moves to shut down free media and civil society in his country). He's also troublingly consistent in his apologetics toward Putin as Russia becomes increasingly totalitarian and commits crimes against humanity in Ukraine and Syria.
Of course, since Farage wants to influence mainstream politics and to maintain his regular slots on mainstream media platforms, he adopts the dog whistle variety of racism rather than turning up in military uniform and jackboots. But the racism and the utter disinterest in developing policies that actually make things better are plain to see.
Nigel Farage
posted on 22/6/24
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the... (U19119)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
No, very few people I know have degrees in fields they studied including me
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Too bad. What a waste of time
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Going to Uni is a waste of time.
LOL
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It is for people on Mickey mouse courses.
Maths, science, law, computer science etc should be the only reason to go to Uni.
Apprenticeships, real world experience for the rest.
We need an educated work force with a diverse skillset, we don't need a highly educated workforce made up of people who waste time doing media studies. They could have easily entered the work force straight after A Levels.
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I went to That London to do my degree when I was just 18 and 2 months. It was without doubt the most scary, yet eye opening, fulfilling adventure I have ever been on. I met people for the first time in my life who had come from Public Schools and from completely different social cultural and financial backgrounds. I met and befriended women for the first time. I even met my wife there. It was a massive culture shock for me, and I wouldnt have changed any of it.
Oh, and the education I got there has also been helpful occassionally for me from time-to-time. Not the most valuable thing I got from my time there by any stretch
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The question would be, do you work in an industry that you trained for in uni? find, most don’t. Including myself
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Yes, I did. For many years. And still do a bit.
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Fair enough. Can I ask what sort of field it was you studied?
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History.
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Interesting, as that’s the sort of thing Nigel the grifter would be trying to scrap. Personally think history is very important, but also wonder how many that studied it get jobs in that field.
posted on 22/6/24
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the... (U19119)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the... (U19119)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
No, very few people I know have degrees in fields they studied including me
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Too bad. What a waste of time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Going to Uni is a waste of time.
LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is for people on Mickey mouse courses.
Maths, science, law, computer science etc should be the only reason to go to Uni.
Apprenticeships, real world experience for the rest.
We need an educated work force with a diverse skillset, we don't need a highly educated workforce made up of people who waste time doing media studies. They could have easily entered the work force straight after A Levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I went to That London to do my degree when I was just 18 and 2 months. It was without doubt the most scary, yet eye opening, fulfilling adventure I have ever been on. I met people for the first time in my life who had come from Public Schools and from completely different social cultural and financial backgrounds. I met and befriended women for the first time. I even met my wife there. It was a massive culture shock for me, and I wouldnt have changed any of it.
Oh, and the education I got there has also been helpful occassionally for me from time-to-time. Not the most valuable thing I got from my time there by any stretch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The question would be, do you work in an industry that you trained for in uni? find, most don’t. Including myself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I did. For many years. And still do a bit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. Can I ask what sort of field it was you studied?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
History.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting, as that’s the sort of thing Nigel the grifter would be trying to scrap. Personally think history is very important, but also wonder how many that studied it get jobs in that field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RB&W was the northern Indiana Jones !
😂
posted on 22/6/24
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the... (U19119)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
No, very few people I know have degrees in fields they studied including me
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Too bad. What a waste of time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Going to Uni is a waste of time.
LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is for people on Mickey mouse courses.
Maths, science, law, computer science etc should be the only reason to go to Uni.
Apprenticeships, real world experience for the rest.
We need an educated work force with a diverse skillset, we don't need a highly educated workforce made up of people who waste time doing media studies. They could have easily entered the work force straight after A Levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I went to That London to do my degree when I was just 18 and 2 months. It was without doubt the most scary, yet eye opening, fulfilling adventure I have ever been on. I met people for the first time in my life who had come from Public Schools and from completely different social cultural and financial backgrounds. I met and befriended women for the first time. I even met my wife there. It was a massive culture shock for me, and I wouldnt have changed any of it.
Oh, and the education I got there has also been helpful occassionally for me from time-to-time. Not the most valuable thing I got from my time there by any stretch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The question would be, do you work in an industry that you trained for in uni? find, most don’t. Including myself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I did. For many years. And still do a bit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough. Can I ask what sort of field it was you studied?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
History.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting, as that’s the sort of thing Nigel the grifter would be trying to scrap. Personally think history is very important, but also wonder how many that studied it get jobs in that field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
History and English degrees (they are regarded as the same) get you into most industries and sectors. Apart from Education obviously..... Media, Broadcasting, Journalism, Publishing, Advertising, Entertainment, Civil Service, Diplomacy, Politics, HR, PR, Curating... Espionage... to name but a few.
posted on 23/6/24
History is the favourite subject of all Manchester United fans. Especially SE85.
posted on 24/6/24
"We need an educated work force with a diverse skillset, we don't need a highly educated workforce made up of people who waste time doing media studies. They could have easily entered the work force straight after A Levels."
"https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/media-studies"
Yeah what use is a media studies degree
Farage is also a person adept at using the media (both social and conventional) to his advantage to push his racist views. Let's fill that industry with a load of uneducated people
posted on 24/6/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
"We need an educated work force with a diverse skillset, we don't need a highly educated workforce made up of people who waste time doing media studies. They could have easily entered the work force straight after A Levels."
"https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/media-studies"
Yeah what use is a media studies degree
Farage is also a person adept at using the media (both social and conventional) to his advantage to push his racist views. Let's fill that industry with a load of uneducated people
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Whilst media studies is an antiquated choice which is no longer even close to suitable for ridicule, I think his overall point re: university has some validity to it.
It comes as no surprise to me that there was a huge drive for more people to go to university right before introducing tuition fees and then again with increasing them massively which the Conservatives did.
There are definitely a lot of people going to university, getting pretty useless degrees which don’t benefit their careers and finishing up with a lot of debt or pay off. One good thing is that we’re nowhere near the US version!
posted on 24/6/24
Also bear in mind Farage himself would've paid between £120 - 160 (£420 -550 today) for university education in 1982. Him assigning value to higher education today is tin earred IMO.
posted on 24/6/24
There are plenty of jobs you can do without a degree, but economic growth and productivity benefit when a larger proportion of the workforce has more education. Plenty of industries have opportunities at entry level for people without degrees, but those same industries also benefit from innovation, creativity, critical thinking, communications skills, etc that are all refined through both science and humanities degrees. Financing higher education is obviously a mess, but I think it's a symptom of the malaise the UK is in, the lack of strategic thinking about how we grapple with the challenges of the 21st century, that the idea we should have fewer highly educated people has a great deal of currency in our national discussion. And of course Farage not only proposes to slash the % going to university, but also net zero immigration, i.e. miniscule numbers of educated migrants coming to the UK. The countries growing their economies fastest at the moment are doing the opposite: investing more in education, welcoming highly educated foreigners with open arms, or both.
posted on 24/6/24
In other news, the non-partisan Institute for Fiscal Studies has published its analysis of the tax and spending commitments each party has made in their respective manifestos. Criticises Labour and Conservatives for a certain amount of opacity in their promises. Notes that smaller parties that aren't in with a chance of winning power (including Greens and Reform) have much less realistic commitments. Absolutely berates Reform "We saw the consequences of [Liz Truss's] massive tax cuts with no detail on how they'd be paid for in September 2022. What Reform offers is on a much bigger scale."
posted on 24/6/24
I refer the above to those who observe that there's some good stuff in Farage's manifesto, if you set aside the racism-y bits.