Immigration, such a thorny subject.

comment by Mr Boggart Hole (U9489)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Mr Boggart Hole (U9489)
posted 4 minutes ago
How is it accepted that people on here can call me racist, without any proof at all?

Show me something i've said that's racist.

It's really getting laughable. Disagree with the fascists on here and you're labelled racist.
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u obviusly donet know whut fascist meens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again.

Please show me something i've said that's racist.


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What did you say yesterday about Romanian migrants compared to migrants from Germany?

Be honest.

The usual suspects complain about being tarred as racists and that you can't talk about opposition to immigration. All you have to do is read and listen to know this is untrue. The entire mainstream debate - look at Starmer vs Sunak on TV - is entirely framed around stopping the boats and reducing the total amount of immigration. The largest progressive party in the country is afraid of making a positive case for immigration. This occurs because the right-wing media has succeeded in setting the agenda (e.g. the BBC - decried as biased to the Left by the same usual suspects - framed the leader's debate around getting immigration under control) as well as political cowardice.

Some alternatives to that view:

- We are not 'full up'. Many countries are far more densely populated than the UK, even if you exclude the Scottish Highlands from that calculation.
- Human psychology struggles to grasp that this isn't a zero sum game. There aren't a finite number of jobs / services to go around. If they are allowed to work, immigrants are more productive than non-immigrants, create economic growth, create prosperity, create more jobs, and deliver services.
- The UK has an increasingly ageing population. Just a few decades ago, there were four people of working age for every one person of retirement age. Soon the ratio will be two to one. This means far fewer economically active people and far more people with greater needs from health and care services. We're getting more productive due to automation technologies, AI, etc. so it doesn't mean we need twice as many people of working age, but we will need a lot more, which either means everyone needs to procreate a hell of a lot or we need migrants to sustain our economy and our services.
- Anti-immigrant rhetoric loves to advocate for an Australian style points system. Let's be clear about the implications. 1) Australia uses this system to actively encourage migrants, and freely chooses a much higher level of immigration than the UK currently experiences. This is one of the reasons its economy is growing much faster than ours. 2) I hope that Reform voters, disproportionately distributed in declining towns, understand the corollary of only letting in people with high-value skills. It means the UK's industries relying on low-pay, low skilled work will not have access to migrant labour. Together with a right-wing prospectus that wishes to reduce the number of university places and stigmatising people on benefits, this translates to expecting the UK-born population to wipe bottoms, clean floors and pick cabbages, while struggling to compete with highly skilled migrants for lucrative and fulfilling jobs.

Those are economic realities. For me there's a separate question that's more a moral one and therefore subjective, which I'll divide into two parts. Personally, I believe in pursuing the common good. I believe society is stronger and the individual is better off when we have a healthy sense of collective interests, with fundamental services and security that's available to all, giving everyone the chance to lead a dignified life. I apply this principle of common good both within my country and internationally: I think we should collaborate with other countries to solve shared problems, and I think we should care about people around the world who are fleeing danger. Farage's politics makes a superficial appeal to an inclusive tribal identity to the exclusion of foreigners. Obviously, I reject the latter, but I also recognise that any appeal to the national common good is made in bad faith, because his policies have no interest in the eradicating poverty, equality of opportunity, or protecting the vulnerable.

Secondly, I've always found the warning cries about too much ethnic diversity to be hollow. In general, the places that are most diverse are also the most comfortable with diversity, while the places that respond most enthusiastically to Farage's message (like Clacton) are particularly homogeneous. There are examples of poor integration, and I think the responsibility for this cuts both ways. Usually the challenges associated with this are temporary (look at the nativism that has greeted every huge wave of immigration to the States over the last 200 years, and observe how each ethnic group has assimilated within one or two generations). Often such assimilation would happen faster if you didn't have characters like Farage making apocalyptic claims about the impact of these new arrivals. Anyway, I like living in a diverse country, and in a diverse city, and I like the fact that my kids go to a diverse school.

comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 14 minutes ago
What I do care is that we endeavour to match numbers of immigrants with number of accommodation, health service and school places.
---

While that seems reasonable on the face of it, the real picture is much more complicated. Older immigrants like yourself aren't taking up school places, they're creating other issues in their adopted countries. Like Spain having to create an infrastructure for all the British retirees living alone.

People moan about unskilled people taking their jobs but really, you need people of a decent working age who are likely to have kids, to be a net gain for the economy. And that's most people - people want to make their lives better. For all the hateful narratives around asylum seekers they're only around 6% of the total.

Britain's native population is ageing and would be on the decline without immigration. Who's gonna pay all the healthcare and pensions for the boomers moaning about immigrants? That's right..
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And one of the big reasons for issues with birth rates in the UK is the economic mess that our awful capitalist system has created. People can’t afford to have children.

But so many people cannot seem to see the link between the UK’s reliance on immigration being directly linked to the failure of the system.

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2006 wages in 2024 for the average working bod yet 2024 prices for everything. Widening gap between the vast majority of those working and those born into wealth. Most of all if you can't buy a house and invest in something solid why have a family? Who wants to raise a family privately renting when you can he evicted with two months notice for no reason.

Good post RR, though I don't think being more densely populated is a good thing.

There aren't enough houses and demand is currently outstripping demand. Areas that are being built are really struggling with infrastructure, schools, healthcare, road systems etc, I've seen it in my home town (and it isn't migrants moving in there).

But I guess that's an issue that the government need to deal with.

comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 14 minutes ago
What I do care is that we endeavour to match numbers of immigrants with number of accommodation, health service and school places.
---

While that seems reasonable on the face of it, the real picture is much more complicated. Older immigrants like yourself aren't taking up school places, they're creating other issues in their adopted countries. Like Spain having to create an infrastructure for all the British retirees living alone.

People moan about unskilled people taking their jobs but really, you need people of a decent working age who are likely to have kids, to be a net gain for the economy. And that's most people - people want to make their lives better. For all the hateful narratives around asylum seekers they're only around 6% of the total.

Britain's native population is ageing and would be on the decline without immigration. Who's gonna pay all the healthcare and pensions for the boomers moaning about immigrants? That's right..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And one of the big reasons for issues with birth rates in the UK is the economic mess that our awful capitalist system has created. People can’t afford to have children.

But so many people cannot seem to see the link between the UK’s reliance on immigration being directly linked to the failure of the system.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah. Thing is, the reasons are almost moot. It's like climate migration. Fixing capitalism and global warming can maybe be fixed in the long term, but right now we have renewable energy and.. communism? There's not a proven alternative that's better, unfortunately.

Hopefully getting rid of the Tories ends a lot of the depressing Rwanda narratives at least. Though it's incredibly unlikely they'll do anything meaningful to address the issues of late stage capitalism.

comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 14 minutes ago
What I do care is that we endeavour to match numbers of immigrants with number of accommodation, health service and school places.
---

While that seems reasonable on the face of it, the real picture is much more complicated. Older immigrants like yourself aren't taking up school places, they're creating other issues in their adopted countries. Like Spain having to create an infrastructure for all the British retirees living alone.

People moan about unskilled people taking their jobs but really, you need people of a decent working age who are likely to have kids, to be a net gain for the economy. And that's most people - people want to make their lives better. For all the hateful narratives around asylum seekers they're only around 6% of the total.

Britain's native population is ageing and would be on the decline without immigration. Who's gonna pay all the healthcare and pensions for the boomers moaning about immigrants? That's right..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And one of the big reasons for issues with birth rates in the UK is the economic mess that our awful capitalist system has created. People can’t afford to have children.

But so many people cannot seem to see the link between the UK’s reliance on immigration being directly linked to the failure of the system.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah. Thing is, the reasons are almost moot. It's like climate migration. Fixing capitalism and global warming can maybe be fixed in the long term, but right now we have renewable energy and.. communism? There's not a proven alternative that's better, unfortunately.

Hopefully getting rid of the Tories ends a lot of the depressing Rwanda narratives at least. Though it's incredibly unlikely they'll do anything meaningful to address the issues of late stage capitalism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But there can be meaningful change with the right economic policy. There’s clearly a huge area between communist economics and the current neoliberal capitalism that we’re currently seeing, that can address a huge amount of problems in the country.

But it needs the support of the electorate and the party in power to enact it. The worrying thing is that it doesn’t have that support because so many are economically illiterate, selfish, greedy and, or, blinded by their social ideologies.

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Mr Boggart Hole (U9489)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Mr Boggart Hole (U9489)
posted 4 minutes ago
How is it accepted that people on here can call me racist, without any proof at all?

Show me something i've said that's racist.

It's really getting laughable. Disagree with the fascists on here and you're labelled racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
u obviusly donet know whut fascist meens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again.

Please show me something i've said that's racist.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
What did you say yesterday about Romanian migrants compared to migrants from Germany?

Be honest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Genuinely nothing.

Please show proof.

comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 11 minutes ago

largely male, muslim immigrants who have made.an economic decision to travel here, as opposed to one out of risk.of harm.
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It must be awful that the internet is here to show how dumb you are

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023
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How long do we reckon this latest RDD incarnation is going to last now?

I knew he’d get himself in trouble when the election came around. He can’t help himself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Trouble 😆

Bless you

comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 14 minutes ago
What I do care is that we endeavour to match numbers of immigrants with number of accommodation, health service and school places.
---

While that seems reasonable on the face of it, the real picture is much more complicated. Older immigrants like yourself aren't taking up school places, they're creating other issues in their adopted countries. Like Spain having to create an infrastructure for all the British retirees living alone.

People moan about unskilled people taking their jobs but really, you need people of a decent working age who are likely to have kids, to be a net gain for the economy. And that's most people - people want to make their lives better. For all the hateful narratives around asylum seekers they're only around 6% of the total.

Britain's native population is ageing and would be on the decline without immigration. Who's gonna pay all the healthcare and pensions for the boomers moaning about immigrants? That's right..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And one of the big reasons for issues with birth rates in the UK is the economic mess that our awful capitalist system has created. People can’t afford to have children.

But so many people cannot seem to see the link between the UK’s reliance on immigration being directly linked to the failure of the system.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

There are countless 'single mothers' from a particular African country out there with 3,4,5 kids

comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 14 minutes ago
What I do care is that we endeavour to match numbers of immigrants with number of accommodation, health service and school places.
---

While that seems reasonable on the face of it, the real picture is much more complicated. Older immigrants like yourself aren't taking up school places, they're creating other issues in their adopted countries. Like Spain having to create an infrastructure for all the British retirees living alone.

People moan about unskilled people taking their jobs but really, you need people of a decent working age who are likely to have kids, to be a net gain for the economy. And that's most people - people want to make their lives better. For all the hateful narratives around asylum seekers they're only around 6% of the total.

Britain's native population is ageing and would be on the decline without immigration. Who's gonna pay all the healthcare and pensions for the boomers moaning about immigrants? That's right..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And one of the big reasons for issues with birth rates in the UK is the economic mess that our awful capitalist system has created. People can’t afford to have children.

But so many people cannot seem to see the link between the UK’s reliance on immigration being directly linked to the failure of the system.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

There are countless 'single mothers' from a particular African country out there with 3,4,5 kids
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have proof for these claims?