Next England Boss

comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 29 minutes ago
If anyone thinks we’re winning a trophy with these players under Howe, Potter or Poch they’re going to be very disappointed. It’s too simplistic to lay everything at the door of Southgate or to simply suggest if we were more attacking we’d have won tournaments

Part of the reason we sit back, don’t want the ball, go long, panic is part of the reason we also started the tournament so badly and let the game against Italy slip away. It’s also connected to why we froze up against Iceland and why we massively underperformed with the golden generation

It’s fear and the weight of expectation. Southgate has done better than most at instilling more confidence but it’s right there - and far more so as we’ve become more accustomed to being pre-tournament favourites as opposed to being the surprise wild card in 2018

England can’t deal with the expectation - and it won’t change until the country and the media in particular change
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All the big football nations have this pressure though, so not sure it's unique to England. Every generation of Brazilian and Argentine footballers have to live with the weight of history. Brazil's team is very often booed and jeered by their own fans, and their ex-players (Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc) often join in the derision, and it just seems toxic. It's actually pretty tame with England where fans are more respectful of players.
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It’s a different pressure. What these other nations have got is a history of winning - and quite often a much more recent one than England.

As an example I’ve spoken with French fans who will be critical of Deschamps but are also nowhere near as bothered about how the team does as England fans are.

They won the WC in 2018 and in 1998 before that. In 98 - Brazil were the favourites, despite the quality in that French team, so again - they didn’t play with fear.

It’s not about being toxic - in a way, that can help teams set up an “us or them” mentality. It’s about the desperation of the whole country to want to win. It’s the constant reminder of ‘58 years of hurt’. It’s the ‘footballs coming home’. The interviews with Geoff Hurst. It’s rammed in these players faces all the time - and the shirt weighs very very heavy.
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This might be true of the big European teams - though the Italian media is pretty rough on their sides - but it's just not true of South Americans. Brazilian players today play with even greater weight of expectation than English players in a much more toxic atmosphere where fans, ex-players, politicians etc openly ridicule them. Argentina are much kinder on their national team these days because they've won the last World Cup and a couple of Copas in a very successful run, but in their lean period before that, they were just as toxic. Wasn't that long ago their media used to call Messi "the Catalan" and unfavorably compare him constantly with Maradonna (with Maradona himself stoking the embers) and it was up to that generation of players to live up to the enormous weight of expectation dumped on their shoulders. The South American media and fans are also far less respectful than their English counterparts who have a better grasp of acceptable limits of criticism.

My point isn't that English players don't have this weight of expectation. It's that it's not really unique.
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The pressure and expectation is unique. It’s unique to each country and I’m not sure you can compare it and its impacts. I’m not sure there’s another big nation that’s won nothing for nearly 60 years whose players continually get reminded of the folklore of 1966. It was both the best and worst thing that happened to us.

I’m not saying other nations don’t have pressure but it’s completely different and unique to each nation and the impacts are different.

It’s also true to say that at times the pressure in Brazil has had a destabilising impact on the team. The semi final collapse against Germany was one such occasion that shows what negative pressure can do.

The point is - England have been under it, intensely for 60 years and the difference is we have a monkey on our back that the other big nations don’t

comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 5 minutes ago
when a coach who has a track record of getting his teams to keep the ball and create lots of chances comes in and still can't get this England team to click, I will believe that the main problem is mentality
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We’ve had some of the best coaches in the world since 66 (and a few of the worst)

Robson, Venables (who was way ahead of his time tactically), Erikssen, Capello etc

These were not bad managers - they had a track record that dwarfed Southgate. Most of them also had an emphasis on keeping the ball during their respective clubs. They all failed to win a thing with talented English players including the Golden Generation

A new manager won’t fix the same old mentality. History is not often wrong…..
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that's ancient history. This group is now on the brink but can't get over the line because they're outplayed by the best of the best.

I think someone with some actual coaching pedigree could help bridge that gap

comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Arteta IN!!! (U7482)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 29 minutes ago
If anyone thinks we’re winning a trophy with these players under Howe, Potter or Poch they’re going to be very disappointed. It’s too simplistic to lay everything at the door of Southgate or to simply suggest if we were more attacking we’d have won tournaments

Part of the reason we sit back, don’t want the ball, go long, panic is part of the reason we also started the tournament so badly and let the game against Italy slip away. It’s also connected to why we froze up against Iceland and why we massively underperformed with the golden generation

It’s fear and the weight of expectation. Southgate has done better than most at instilling more confidence but it’s right there - and far more so as we’ve become more accustomed to being pre-tournament favourites as opposed to being the surprise wild card in 2018

England can’t deal with the expectation - and it won’t change until the country and the media in particular change
----------------------------------------------------------------------

All the big football nations have this pressure though, so not sure it's unique to England. Every generation of Brazilian and Argentine footballers have to live with the weight of history. Brazil's team is very often booed and jeered by their own fans, and their ex-players (Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc) often join in the derision, and it just seems toxic. It's actually pretty tame with England where fans are more respectful of players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a different pressure. What these other nations have got is a history of winning - and quite often a much more recent one than England.

As an example I’ve spoken with French fans who will be critical of Deschamps but are also nowhere near as bothered about how the team does as England fans are.

They won the WC in 2018 and in 1998 before that. In 98 - Brazil were the favourites, despite the quality in that French team, so again - they didn’t play with fear.

It’s not about being toxic - in a way, that can help teams set up an “us or them” mentality. It’s about the desperation of the whole country to want to win. It’s the constant reminder of ‘58 years of hurt’. It’s the ‘footballs coming home’. The interviews with Geoff Hurst. It’s rammed in these players faces all the time - and the shirt weighs very very heavy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This might be true of the big European teams - though the Italian media is pretty rough on their sides - but it's just not true of South Americans. Brazilian players today play with even greater weight of expectation than English players in a much more toxic atmosphere where fans, ex-players, politicians etc openly ridicule them. Argentina are much kinder on their national team these days because they've won the last World Cup and a couple of Copas in a very successful run, but in their lean period before that, they were just as toxic. Wasn't that long ago their media used to call Messi "the Catalan" and unfavorably compare him constantly with Maradonna (with Maradona himself stoking the embers) and it was up to that generation of players to live up to the enormous weight of expectation dumped on their shoulders. The South American media and fans are also far less respectful than their English counterparts who have a better grasp of acceptable limits of criticism.

My point isn't that English players don't have this weight of expectation. It's that it's not really unique.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The pressure and expectation is unique. It’s unique to each country and I’m not sure you can compare it and its impacts. I’m not sure there’s another big nation that’s won nothing for nearly 60 years whose players continually get reminded of the folklore of 1966. It was both the best and worst thing that happened to us.

I’m not saying other nations don’t have pressure but it’s completely different and unique to each nation and the impacts are different.

It’s also true to say that at times the pressure in Brazil has had a destabilising impact on the team. The semi final collapse against Germany was one such occasion that shows what negative pressure can do.

The point is - England have been under it, intensely for 60 years and the difference is we have a monkey on our back that the other big nations don’t
----------------------------------------------------------------------
U jussed halve not quite bean good enuff

comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 5 minutes ago
when a coach who has a track record of getting his teams to keep the ball and create lots of chances comes in and still can't get this England team to click, I will believe that the main problem is mentality
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ve had some of the best coaches in the world since 66 (and a few of the worst)

Robson, Venables (who was way ahead of his time tactically), Erikssen, Capello etc

These were not bad managers - they had a track record that dwarfed Southgate. Most of them also had an emphasis on keeping the ball during their respective clubs. They all failed to win a thing with talented English players including the Golden Generation

A new manager won’t fix the same old mentality. History is not often wrong…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
that's ancient history. This group is now on the brink but can't get over the line because they're outplayed by the best of the best.

I think someone with some actual coaching pedigree could help bridge that gap
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This group were on the brink of going out to Slovakia.
If that had happened (and it probably should have done) it would have been Iceland part 2 and you and I would be having a different debate I suspect

I don’t see this team as the 2nd best in this tournament and I don’t think they’re on the brink of anything. I see the same fear and mentality problems as I’ve seen through out decades of watching England

Not winning anything in 60 years isn’t ancient history - it’s part of who we are. I’m not advocating Southgate stays and I agree he’s tactically poor - but if you think this group of players are going to change into tournament winners under a new manager you’re in for a massive disappointment

comment by 98 Problems (and promotion ain’t one) (U12353)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 5 minutes ago
when a coach who has a track record of getting his teams to keep the ball and create lots of chances comes in and still can't get this England team to click, I will believe that the main problem is mentality
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ve had some of the best coaches in the world since 66 (and a few of the worst)

Robson, Venables (who was way ahead of his time tactically), Erikssen, Capello etc

These were not bad managers - they had a track record that dwarfed Southgate. Most of them also had an emphasis on keeping the ball during their respective clubs. They all failed to win a thing with talented English players including the Golden Generation

A new manager won’t fix the same old mentality. History is not often wrong…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's easier in Southgate's era for us to succeed though. We seem to be producing better young talents now. You can see the changes implemented at youth level - St George's Park, smaller sized pitches for kids etc. are garnering better results as shown by recent success for U-17s, U-19s, U-21s. Players like Foden, Saka, Mainoo, Palmer, Bellingham....probably the best load of young talent at any one time we've had.

Winter breaks have now been introduced for us. Remember when this used to be blamed for the reason for players looking so tired in the past?

Extended squad numbers from 23 to 26, although not as if Southgate used that to his advantage.

Also the strength in opposition in the international scene at the moment is not what it was.

I honestly think we are closer to winning something than we've ever been and other managers from this point onwards can do equally as well as Southgate and hopefully better.

they were on the brink of going out because of the way we were set up though

I just think it's quite a convenient excuse for Southgate to pin it all on the media and the pressure and the noise.

it's on record that we've tried to replicate what France did in 2018 and what Portugal did in 2016. that was a noble goal at the time but it feels like the times have changed with these last two euros winners playing something closer to what you're seeing at the top of the domestic game. It's time to adapt. maybe in the big games this team will continue to freeze up but Im pretty confident that a Tuchel or a potter will have this team play a style more lent to success in the group stages and the earlier knockout games, and that alone should make a big difference to these mentality issues you're talking about.

of course the players shrink and feel outclassed by these teams and, look at the way we play

The only reason England managers don't do so well at major tournaments is because they are just so tired from the hectic scheduling of the PL as well as the pace and physicality of it. Managers of other countries have it easy in their leagues so are fresh for major tournaments.

comment by Jim Duffy (U1734)
posted 50 seconds ago
The only reason England managers don't do so well at major tournaments is because they are just so tired from the hectic scheduling of the PL as well as the pace and physicality of it. Managers of other countries have it easy in their leagues so are fresh for major tournaments.
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Thats whut Beckhamingham said yesturday that all the eggstra games they play in EPL tire him out comoare too the Spainish pkayers wh got too ressed all season in El Ligo

comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 15 minutes ago
they were on the brink of going out because of the way we were set up though

I just think it's quite a convenient excuse for Southgate to pin it all on the media and the pressure and the noise.

it's on record that we've tried to replicate what France did in 2018 and what Portugal did in 2016. that was a noble goal at the time but it feels like the times have changed with these last two euros winners playing something closer to what you're seeing at the top of the domestic game. It's time to adapt. maybe in the big games this team will continue to freeze up but Im pretty confident that a Tuchel or a potter will have this team play a style more lent to success in the group stages and the earlier knockout games, and that alone should make a big difference to these mentality issues you're talking about.

of course the players shrink and feel outclassed by these teams and, look at the way we play
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I think the bigger issue is that we haven't created a tempo-dictating midfielder since Carrick, a player who can keep the ball under pressure in the biggest moments.

Winks threatened it for a moment around 17/18 and then got that ankle injury and never came back the same. Phillips did a decent job of it for England but is a crock & its probably a tournament too early for Wharton.

I do think fear plays a massive part for England. What other countries have to contest with doesn’t really address that issue. But I’d argue Brazil have historically crumbled due to the pressure piled on them since 2002. This was something that has applied especially to Neymar and Ronaldinho, where the expectations of one man being the star in a winning side has been unfairly levelled at them. You could arguably say the same for Messi and Ronaldo in recent history as well.