Did We Lose ?

comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 12 minutes ago
Add Coventry to the teams we’ve beaten in the last 9 months:
Coventry
Burnley
Sheff Utd
Forest
Luton
Palace
Brighton
Brentford
Everton

Notice any pattern?
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Brighton aside, we can only beat shiete
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Exactly.

As soon as a decent team (top 10) play us, they have the discipline to stay compact throughout and the quality to take the chances we will offer up to them with a corner or a ball over the top.
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I do think you’ve missed Aston Villa in that list though
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Yes!
You’re right!
We beat Villa 0-4.

Villa and Brighton.

That means we never beat teams like Wolves, Fulham etc

It’s not great. It points to the quality of our players and tactics.
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I agree, his refusal to adapt or train at defending corners faaacks me off beyond belief. Pep/Klopp/Fergie - they all adapted and stamped out weaknesses and this faaacker won’t

comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 12 minutes ago
Add Coventry to the teams we’ve beaten in the last 9 months:
Coventry
Burnley
Sheff Utd
Forest
Luton
Palace
Brighton
Brentford
Everton

Notice any pattern?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brighton aside, we can only beat shiete
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.

As soon as a decent team (top 10) play us, they have the discipline to stay compact throughout and the quality to take the chances we will offer up to them with a corner or a ball over the top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do think you’ve missed Aston Villa in that list though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes!
You’re right!
We beat Villa 0-4.

Villa and Brighton.

That means we never beat teams like Wolves, Fulham etc

It’s not great. It points to the quality of our players and tactics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree, his refusal to adapt or train at defending corners faaacks me off beyond belief. Pep/Klopp/Fergie - they all adapted and stamped out weaknesses and this faaacker won’t
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Think about not beating teams like Wolves and West Ham home or away.


Ange has some seriously good PR. I mean, Nino was sacked for much less.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 minute ago
It was important to win last night for the sake of keeping our cup hopes alive and relieving some of the pessure but in the grand scheme of things, all we've done is narrowly beat a Championship side, the type of team we were beating already - Everton, Sheff United and Burnley the end of last season. I don't think we have learned a lot other than it was a poor performance and we got lucky. Next 3 PL games will give us the real answers to the questions about Ange.
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Correct - fail to win Saturday and it’s 2 tricky games at United and Brighton.

I am very confident that if we only take 1 point from the next 3 games then Ange will be getting the sack and I’m not sure 1 win from the next 3 will be enough to save him. Levy is a lot of things, but forgiving isn’t one of them
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5 or more points should be the target. I think I said to you before, I'd be more encouraged by 5 points than 6 points cause one is going unbeaten, the other is losing a game and we already have lost 2 games as it is. The way our form has been we'll be looking at no more than 3 points at best from our next 3.

Not just results but performances will have to be good as well. We need to start showing we can create chances more easily, which is a big problem at the moment. Ultimately we do that then much more chance of winning.
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Yeah I remember you saying that.

I think narrow win over Brentford, beat Qarabag, lose to United, draw with Ferencvaros and loss/draw with Brighton.

Wonder what Levy would make of it if that comes true - at best I think Ange would be on the brink. First game back would be West Ham at home - lose that and he is absolutely toast
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Well if it's a draw with Brighton, I guess that run would just about be acceptable. Would depend on the manner of performances and the loss to United.

If this team plays like it should then it would be a win against Brentford, 1 win and draw minimum in Europe, and 2 draws or a draw and narrow win in the away PL games. What is likely in our current form is a draw to Brentford, a loss to United and a draw or narrow loss to Brighton. European games who knows given it'll be heavy rotation.

Levy will only care about the PL games, so to him 5 or more points would give Ange more time.
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Levy will know more than anyone that a cup is as big as the league this season. He may have his eye on the bottom line but he is an egotist and will know that his time here will never been deemed as a success unless we deliver cups.

And lets not forget that the Europa can get you into the UCL.

I think the form has to start to look like it is an entrenched issue that can only be solved with a manager change before Levy even starts to think of loading his gun.

Right now i do not think that's the case. Back end of last season was bad. This season we have looked better without getting the results. Many of the dropped points have come from moments. We're not being played off the park by opposition like we were at times last season.

What will be more telling is the players. Angeball demands total commitment from the players and if they lose faith then the system will fall apart.

At the moment i think you can tell that the players know they are not delivering, not moving the ball quick enough, making wrong choices, giving the ball away. I feel like they know what they should be doing but are not executing it well enough.

Basically they are not questioning the system, yet!

We've all seen us purr in attack at times under Ange. We were refreshingly brilliant to begin with, teams then know what to expect and have adapted to us. We now need to adapt to them, change things up a bit. TBH i saw the likes of Solanke as key to this, an aerial, physical threat in the box, a player who can hold it up and bring others in and a finisher. We havent seen that yet , but we need to start seeing it. But as a player who started 1, missed 2 and started again, it's going to take more time to make things work (That's why i was annoyed when Solanke went off last night. He has had barely any game time with Madders & Son & Deki, but he went off when they came on).

Ange is not getting everything right. Team selection last night lacked balance, and things like that and sioe substitutions are not helping him. But for me, right now, its up to the players to begin to execute before we start to point at the system.
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You could be right, then again others could call you naive for looking at Levy like he's suddenly prioritising cup success and is this patient football owner who will give a manager who has 13 wins in 32 games, time. History does not suggest that is the case. There is only so much Levy will tolerate. For instance, if it were Arteta managing under Levy and he did what he did in those first 3 seasons at Arsenal, I'm not entirely convinced Levy would have kept him even with the FA Cup win. 3 seasons without top 4 is a lot for Levy to suffer, especially with that bottle job to ourselves in that 3rd season.

In terms of our performances this season, I'd have said that we were playing well but that has shifted a bit when against Arsenal and again yesterday, we were pretty poor and more akin to the end of last season. We're going to need a lift in performances as well as results going forward.

Levy caring about the league cup

.

I don't think Levy has prioritised cups in anyway in the past but if you take the ENIC project then we have achieved everything but win stuff.

All the infrastructure is in place, the stadiums earning big non-football bucks, our budgets are comparable to rivals, what's left to do is be successful.

Even if people think Levy's sole aim is to maximise the value of his asset then nothing does that more than success. He's not going to put the club at risk to achieve it but he will know its the next step financially.

And like any manager, he has an ego. He wants that glory. He will hate criticism, of which he gets plenty, and he will know that "but i have made the club financially stable and competitive" is something that will only carry weight for a limited period of time, and that time is pretty much gone.

His tenure of Spurs will now be judged on success, on cups. But he is also pragmatic enough to know that if you have a team good enough to be in the top 4 then you also have sufficient quality to be seriously challenging for cups. The 2 kinda go hand in hand.

The FA Cup has been won by UCL regulars for over a decade, with the exception of Leicester in 20/21

The League cup pretty much the same.

Winning doesn't hide anything. I seem to remember winning 3-2 at Bournemouth a few years back under Conte and everyone was waxing lyrical about the comeback from 2-0 down but I said at the time that it was masking some deep, deep problems and that's exactly how it played out.

The biggest fallacy in football is that 'winning whilst not playing well is a good sign'. No it's not. Winning playing well means you're likely to win more. Playing badly and winning just means that your form will eventually catch up with you.

That was one of the most abject performances I've ever seen from a Spurs team playing against a second string Coventry team that made 7 changes of their own. It was a disgraceful performance and no last minute swing is going to change that.

All we've really learnt is that the bench is nowhere near as talented as we all think it is. We've replaced senior pros with kids in order to get the wage bill down. I honestly think overall we're weaker than we were at the end of last year. So much for the summer overhaul.

Levy is the problem though. Not Ange. Sick of blaming the manager every time.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 minutes ago
I don't think Levy has prioritised cups in anyway in the past but if you take the ENIC project then we have achieved everything but win stuff.

All the infrastructure is in place, the stadiums earning big non-football bucks, our budgets are comparable to rivals, what's left to do is be successful.

Even if people think Levy's sole aim is to maximise the value of his asset then nothing does that more than success. He's not going to put the club at risk to achieve it but he will know its the next step financially.

And like any manager, he has an ego. He wants that glory. He will hate criticism, of which he gets plenty, and he will know that "but i have made the club financially stable and competitive" is something that will only carry weight for a limited period of time, and that time is pretty much gone.

His tenure of Spurs will now be judged on success, on cups. But he is also pragmatic enough to know that if you have a team good enough to be in the top 4 then you also have sufficient quality to be seriously challenging for cups. The 2 kinda go hand in hand.

The FA Cup has been won by UCL regulars for over a decade, with the exception of Leicester in 20/21

The League cup pretty much the same.


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Yeah they are difficult to win - one would think that going full strength might give you a better chance of winning than playing the bomb squad - yet all our managers keep doing it and there is only one common denominator

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 4 minutes ago
Winning doesn't hide anything. I seem to remember winning 3-2 at Bournemouth a few years back under Conte and everyone was waxing lyrical about the comeback from 2-0 down but I said at the time that it was masking some deep, deep problems and that's exactly how it played out.

The biggest fallacy in football is that 'winning whilst not playing well is a good sign'. No it's not. Winning playing well means you're likely to win more. Playing badly and winning just means that your form will eventually catch up with you.

That was one of the most abject performances I've ever seen from a Spurs team playing against a second string Coventry team that made 7 changes of their own. It was a disgraceful performance and no last minute swing is going to change that.

All we've really learnt is that the bench is nowhere near as talented as we all think it is. We've replaced senior pros with kids in order to get the wage bill down. I honestly think overall we're weaker than we were at the end of last year. So much for the summer overhaul.

Levy is the problem though. Not Ange. Sick of blaming the manager every time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A combo of both for me. We were the 4th biggest spenders in world football last year, yet people say we don’t spend enough, it’s simply not true.

The issue is we don’t have enough football people at the top making football related decisions.

But Ange is a one trick, high line Pony and we concede the same goals over and over again - it’s boring as faaack.

Last night I watched us completely out played by a team that will finish mid table in the Championship and all they had to do was just keep knocking an early long ball over our defence and they were in - Ange stood there, arms crossed, looking like he was in a queue to buy a new iphone - just expressionless

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 minutes ago
Winning doesn't hide anything. I seem to remember winning 3-2 at Bournemouth a few years back under Conte and everyone was waxing lyrical about the comeback from 2-0 down but I said at the time that it was masking some deep, deep problems and that's exactly how it played out.

The biggest fallacy in football is that 'winning whilst not playing well is a good sign'. No it's not. Winning playing well means you're likely to win more. Playing badly and winning just means that your form will eventually catch up with you.

That was one of the most abject performances I've ever seen from a Spurs team playing against a second string Coventry team that made 7 changes of their own. It was a disgraceful performance and no last minute swing is going to change that.

All we've really learnt is that the bench is nowhere near as talented as we all think it is. We've replaced senior pros with kids in order to get the wage bill down. I honestly think overall we're weaker than we were at the end of last year. So much for the summer overhaul.

Levy is the problem though. Not Ange. Sick of blaming the manager every time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

TBF, if you are going to call it a second string Coventry then its also a 2nd string Spurs.

Still doesnt change the fact that we should have performed better but its been done to death on here today that the sheer number of changes just made it almost impossible to put a coherent dsiplay together, and thats on Ange.

With the exception of Werner & Forster, i dont think last night reflected badly on any particular individuals, it was just a team thrown together with kids and fringe and those seeking some form. Very difficult for the likes of Gray & Bergvall to settle into that environment, difficult for Solanke to have any understanding with the 2nd string attackers, tough for Dragusin to command a defence that had a LB at CB an 18 yo midfielder at RB & an old skool keeper who hasnt played in months.

We were set up to fail and did well to come out of it with a win. It's a mark against Ange and he had better learn from the experience, and a bit more humility from him would help. I like his Aussie style plain speaking but i am not liking his body language which to me shows a level of frustration with the players and actually, last night's shiiit show was on him, not the players. IMO

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 minutes ago
Winning doesn't hide anything. I seem to remember winning 3-2 at Bournemouth a few years back under Conte and everyone was waxing lyrical about the comeback from 2-0 down but I said at the time that it was masking some deep, deep problems and that's exactly how it played out.

The biggest fallacy in football is that 'winning whilst not playing well is a good sign'. No it's not. Winning playing well means you're likely to win more. Playing badly and winning just means that your form will eventually catch up with you.

That was one of the most abject performances I've ever seen from a Spurs team playing against a second string Coventry team that made 7 changes of their own. It was a disgraceful performance and no last minute swing is going to change that.

All we've really learnt is that the bench is nowhere near as talented as we all think it is. We've replaced senior pros with kids in order to get the wage bill down. I honestly think overall we're weaker than we were at the end of last year. So much for the summer overhaul.

Levy is the problem though. Not Ange. Sick of blaming the manager every time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

TBF, if you are going to call it a second string Coventry then its also a 2nd string Spurs.

Still doesnt change the fact that we should have performed better but its been done to death on here today that the sheer number of changes just made it almost impossible to put a coherent dsiplay together, and thats on Ange.

With the exception of Werner & Forster, i dont think last night reflected badly on any particular individuals, it was just a team thrown together with kids and fringe and those seeking some form. Very difficult for the likes of Gray & Bergvall to settle into that environment, difficult for Solanke to have any understanding with the 2nd string attackers, tough for Dragusin to command a defence that had a LB at CB an 18 yo midfielder at RB & an old skool keeper who hasnt played in months.

We were set up to fail and did well to come out of it with a win. It's a mark against Ange and he had better learn from the experience, and a bit more humility from him would help. I like his Aussie style plain speaking but i am not liking his body language which to me shows a level of frustration with the players and actually, last night's shiiit show was on him, not the players. IMO
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But if you accept that the second string is poor, what's Ange supposed to do? Play the first 11 for a team that's likely to play twice a week for the next month? That's just not possible. You have to rotate in order to keep players fresh and the one game you'd consider it okay to make wholesale changes in would be the one against a championship side who made as many changes as we did. It's not an excuse. We should have enough to dispatch a team like that, 2nd string or not. The fact that we haven't isn't a sleight on Ange. He's doing what he has to do to keep players fresh.

No I'd argue this is on Levy.

We might have been the fourth biggest spenders, but I'm not sure of the validity of that when you consider player sales, like Kane bringing in a hell of a lot. The part ot focus on is our wage bill. That's what concerns the hierarchy at Spurs the most because over the course of a contract, it's by far the most expensive measure we have. We can spend big on certain players, like Gray at 40m which is a lot for a kid, but Levy is willing to sanction that because he's probably on peanuts. The problem with shipping out the experience of the likes of PEH and replacing them with kid after kid is that they're just not as ready as senior pros. Their development relies on good experience being around them. We've barely got any now so the kids are thrown to the wolves together, and it's all in the name of a lower wage bill. They might all come good but let's be real. This endeavour has nothing to do with hoovering up the best young talent in the world. It's about lowering the wage bill. We're now lower than Brighton.

Levy is the problem. I've made my mind up on that. Sacking Ange will solve nothing.