These next 4 games we face could be the biggest we have had in some time (now before you jump on me and say it is only 9 games into a 38 game season please read why i think they are massive games).
We start at Swansea a tough place to go, Stoke City come here we have not lost to Stoke at home 2 wins and a draw in the last 3 seasons, Away to the Hawthorns not a happy hunting ground for us but we still snatched a point from them last season and we finsih the 4 game run at home against Everton a fixture that produces goals and 3 vital points for us.
Now this is the question after these 4 games that for all you stat loving Coyle supporters out there produced 7 points from 12 in the corosponding fixtures last season what would we consider an acceptable return from 12 points?
I personally consider being we have 6 from 27 points on offer so far we need to at least match the 7 we got last season, giving us 13 points going into December, that would be 10 points less than this stage last season BUT in fairness we had only played Arsenal, United and Liverpool in that timescale were has we have played all the big 5 this time.
So what do we do if we got 4 more defeats in these games? Do we continue to give Coyle time to turn it around? Do we bite the bullet and give him the boot?
The reason i am dubious about giving Coyle firstly more time than these next 4 games is that this rot has been present since January way before the FA Cup Semi disaster we had been on a bad run of results that delivered 14 points from 36 on offer.
And secondly i am dubious about giving Coyle funds in January to buy new players as his buys so far have been lousy,
Pratley is showing why he has been a Championship player for so long,
Eagles is Championship at best way out of his depth in the top flight,
Reo-Coker is 2 seconds of the pace for the whole game,
Petrov is to light weight, gives the ball away, is lazy never tracks back to defend.
The jury is out on the following,
Alonso 2m and we have seen no return from this kid so far,
Mears unlucky to be injured pre-season but is he Premiership class?
Ngog seems full of running but not much end product or class from him.
Wheater the best of the Coyle signings but can be clumsy and seems unfit.
Coyle has had success in the loan market with Wilshere and then Sturridge and the current crop of loan signings seem a bit hit and miss Tuncay has class we have all seen it but not under Coyle, Kaktua not been given a chance yet and Boyata is really only playing after the Steinsson fall out.
Would you want to give Coyle a possible 8-10m transfer pot in January? That figure would only be if we cashed in on Cahill and of course the board spent to avoid the drop but would you really want Coyle to spend that money on players like he has done so far?
Before everyone jumps on me with the famous old story of we have injurys to our best players yes we do it is very unfortunate that Holden will not play again this season but Holden only featured in 2 league games from when he signed in January 2010 to May 2010 and we still avoided relegation with ease at the end.
The Lee injury was a set back BUT Coyle did then go out and sign Eagles after the injury signalling his intent on using him as Lee's cover.
And the one that gets me most is Sam Ricketts a player most fans seem to think cannot defend to save his life (most fans that sit around me slate and call this guy for 90 minutes when he starts) but suddenly this guy is our best Right Back and would feature in every game according to most fans on here.
We knew from mid July Lee would not play this season we signed Eagles as cover, We knew that Holden would not be back till mid October but all we did was sign Pratley and Reo-Coker to strengthen our midfield ranks one a replacement for Muamba and the other an untested Championship player.
Upfront we lost Elmander and Sturridge but all we got in was Ngog unproven at this level due to being stuck on Liverpool's bench for 3 years and Tuncay who Coyle will not start with.
I was over the moon when we got Coyle but now i am worried that he is out of his comfort zone and is completely clueless about getting us out of this slump our victories this season have been gifted to us by woeful defending from both QPR and Wigan and from watching us this season we seem worse than when Coyle took over all over the park, The defence is awful and nothing is being done about it why not bring in a coach to help out there, The midfield has zero bite at all we cannot cut defences open and upfront we keep sticking with Davies who has had it for me.
If Coyle wants to keep his job then he needs to address some serious issues within the team and i really do feel like for the first time since he came he cannot motivate the players anymore they do not want to do it for him anymore and seem afraid to play football.
4 Massive Games For BWFC
posted on 27/10/11
Peter, not wishing to sound pedantic, but do you know the coaches at Euxton or is your post based on the performances on the pitch?
posted on 27/10/11
I will openly admit that I have watched the games JAH and seen the way the defence looks awfully weak and disorganised, I don't personally know any of the coaches or Owen himself for that matter. I'm just a fan like everyone else offering what I see as a potential cause of our problems and a possible solution to them.
I'm sure that some of our back room staff are excellent but the results on the pitch tell us that something is very wrong and it has been for a while. Now as you know I am a big time Coyle fan, I will be all the way to the end of his tenure. But I am also the first to admit his inexperience and naivety at times cost us. I don't point the finger at any one player or coach but surely, surely in this day and age the lack of a defensive coach is simply ludicrous? As I put on the other thread Big Sam was a defender himself and so probably never felt the need for a coach in that role. Owen was a striker and has a naturally attacking mindset so maybe he needs that foil, someone who can organise that back line and take care of it for him.
If you intend to criticise (I know you don't normally do it without reason by the way) because I don't personally know the staff etc and I'm not privy to the actual training sessions then fair enough but what would YOU do?
posted on 27/10/11
Hang on we're having convos across 2 threads ignor my response on the other one - just reading yours now
posted on 27/10/11
Fair points Peter and I am pretty much in agreement with you. I'd not really given the fact that OC had not been a defender that much thought, but (and I'm playing devils advocate here and not being deliberately awkward ), what about Villas Boas? He wasn't even a player. He did the same coaching course that OC did up in Scotland. In fact I believe they were on the same course at the same time. I don't know the workings of Chelsea backroom staff, but I would be interested to know if Villas Boas has a specialist defence coach at Cobham.
No, I wasn't criticising you Peter as always like your posts and just wanted to understand the angle where your thoughts were coming from. Our defence is pants at the moment and Zat who has played the majority of our games has been off the planet and taken Gretski with him. (Notice Petrover & bwfcforever that our defence (except Boyata) is Megson bought!) It can't be age catching up with them, so I was wondering if it could be a change of tactic or strategies on the training pitch or if Zat's dummy has been out of the pram since we didn't spend the extra cash on his BFF.
posted on 27/10/11
JAH
Yes the defence may have been Megson bought but at that time
Steinsson Cahill Knight Robinson
was good enough for Owen for over 12 months before he added Wheater in January and then bought Mears this summer until this point Coyle has not addressed the defence at all.
Everyone bangs on about how bad Robinson is but Coyle has had 4 transfer windows to replace him in and bought just Alonso a kid with little experience in any first team situation to solve that area, If he had thought this through better he would have surly bought a trusted experienced Left Back with Prem experience?
Also over the age question both Knight and Robbo are now over 30 and Steinsson is 30 soon so yes i think a lot could be age catching up with them.
But i agree with Peter Owen does not seem to go in for tatics or individual area training so i really think he needs to take a leaf out of Pardews book and spend some serious time on the defence side of things and work out some positional plays for this defence and quick as we will keep leaking goals with the way we play now.
But we have issues further forward as well like the midfield not tracking back or even sticking a tackle in and allowing the opposition to come at the defence time and time again they can only keep lumping it forward so many times until teams find a way through.
posted on 27/10/11
was good enough for Owen for over 12 months before he added Wheater in January and then bought Mears this summer until this point Coyle has not addressed the defence at all.
Everyone bangs on about how bad Robinson is but Coyle has had 4 transfer windows to replace him in and bought just Alonso a kid with little experience in any first team situation to solve that area, If he had thought this through better he would have surly bought a trusted experienced Left Back with Prem experience?
--
Coyle has not had 4 transfer windows, I don't count his first window as a full one as he was only brought in half way through.
You mention an experienced left back, what do you think the going rate for one of those is? Coyle has very few resources and has tried to maximise these by buying a young player. He is currently injured so we'll have to wait before making judgement.
posted on 27/10/11
First up Moses was the questioned aimed at you?
Secondly he had a t least 3 weeks of the window when he was appointed so that is 4 in my eyes BUT even if you want to count it as 3 he still never used any of those windows to replace Robinson he stuck by him so must have thought he was good enough at the time.
An experienced left back was going for a song in January Warnock was touted around for just 2m after Houllier made it clear he would not play for him again.
Alonso is young yes and is injured as well but it still does not alter from the fact he used 2.2m to buy a young foreign inexperienced left back to replace Robinson with when that same fee 6 months after he spent it would have bought Warnock.
Alonso may go on to be a fantastic buy and be our first choice left back for a long time or he could turn out to be a massive flop we do not know yet because he is injured now and did not feature enough last season as Coyle wanted to bed him in slowly.
This still does not alter the fact Coyle believed that Robinson was good enough to be first choice left back as he even allowed Samuel to leave this summer rather than offer him as a pay as you play deal or reduced terms like Gardner was given as he must have believed that Robinson was still up to the test.
posted on 27/10/11
First up Moses was the questioned aimed at you?
--
Why does this matter?
--
Alonso cost £1.6m, your alternative is based on a transfer rumour right?
Samuel was shocking at Cardiff, the fact that he hasn't found a club speaks volumes about his current ability/ Performance.
posted on 27/10/11
Moses one thing i have found about you you always have to create a mountain out of a mole hill and make everyone take your opinion as gospel.
I find it rather annoying to be fair and as this is a debating site and i have never managed to have one of those with yourself as all you do is talk down to people with a rather condescending tone i am just going to ignore your opinion from now on as it always seems to be your opinion or no opinion.
Everyone else can take on board comments and do something with them to move along the debate but you pick up on anything you can and use it to try and make yourself better than anyone else.
For example in your last post how do you know Alonso cost 1.6m and not 2.2m? I had the same problem with you over the Elmander fee you cannot provide any proof of a fee so why is it YOUR opinion is always gospel?
And for the record the Warnock rumour came direct from his agent who shops in the clothing shop i used to work in and he used to give us inside tips into transfers and Warnock happened to be on his books thank you very much.
posted on 28/10/11
JAH Villas Boas has GOT specialist coaches for GK, defence, mids, attack as well as fitness and conditioning coaches, nutritionists and even a staff psychologist. Now I know we're not chelsea and don't have their resources but surely we should have at least one specialist coach for the defenders, one for mids, one for attackers. Owen was a striker so could possibly do the attack coaching himself and thus spend a bit less money.
BWFC Forever don't forget that when Owen came in we still had Elmander on staff whose wage was reportedly 60K+ per week. That changed when he left and I don't think it's coincidence that Owen IMMEDIATELY moved to bring in more defenders. Unfortunately Mears was injured and as a result Boyata is now playing out of his favoured role of CB and my guess ( Yes it is a guess) is that Owen left Steinsson in place at first because he thought Boyata COULDN'T play at Full Back. With Alonso out injured as well we were initially stuck with Robinson.
Obviously this means the flanks are weak and we've seen Owen move to play Boyata at RB and in my humble opinion he's better than Steinsson there but we won't see the best of our defenders until Mears and Alonso are back.
Assuming we don't lose Gary Cahill in January I think the defence come March or April may well read
Alonso = Cahill = Boyata = Mears
Wheater, Knight, Robinson, Steinsson and Reilly (forgive me if I spell that wrong) will be back ups. Knight, Wheater and Reilly are all useful squad players IMO but come summer we should off load Robbo and Steinsson. They work hard, give their all and I respect them for that but the harsh reality is they aren't good enough for this level.
I know Boyata is only here on loan but in my opinion he's a very good player and if possible I'd like to see us keep him permanently. However, it won't matter how good the defenders are until and unless someone comes in to organise them properly. That's not any sign of incompetence on Owen's part by the way. It's simply that in this day and age a specialist unit coach for all four main areas of play is a necessity in this league. The manager's job is to then co-ordinate everything and pick the right team and tactics for the match.
I know I do keep banging this drum but let's face it here. Owen is a great man manager and a superb motivator but sometimes he keeps the faith in certain individuals long after everyone else can see that he isn't going to have his faith rewarded. He gave everyone a clean slate when he joined us and rightly so but now it's time for him to say 'Sorry but we have to change and you don't quite fit in with my plans' to certain individuals.
At least that's how I see it.