we are just not good enough...

I usually agree with John but not completely on this occasion.

I think both Peltier and Konchesky are half decent but they are not wing-backs. Equally (as others have pointed out) Sven over-loaded the squad with central midfielders and failed to add any width. I think the Sunday Times described him a tactically inept and in terms of the Championship, I concur.

Johngee - you also refer to Bamba as one of the best centre-halves in the division. Just don't get me started on that one. Although, St Ledger has had some below par performances, I honestly believe our pairing under the new regime will be SSL and Mills. Sol goes walkabout far too often for my liking.

Whilst it is currently very difficult to see anything beyond scraping into the top six this season, a sustained run is achievable over the next two months if the owners bring in a motivator. There are no easy games but I think we have had our fair share of the more difficult ties and we should also benefit from the "strength" in depth over the winter months when injuries tend to plague smaller squads.

I haven't completely lost the faith but as much as liked him as an individual, Sven had severly tested it over the past few weeks.

"Sorry Dunge - not pay £6m for a full back as part of Premiership driven team but pay it for an average centre back!!"

At the end of 2010/11 Mills hadn't had an 'average' season, in fact he was one of the best defenders in the division.

If you had asked most fans in the division who they would prefer their team to buy, I don't think many would have been critical if Mills had been picked over Naughton. Although both were excellent last year.

The only argument for Mills being 'average' is that he has had some average/poor games at the beginning of THIS season, but obviously there isn't really any justification for taking this is to account when reviewing a purchase made prior to this.

PS - Unless of course, you are suggesting that in real-time when we purchased Mills, you felt he was 'average', which I wouldn't have agreed with, but would be fair enough.

Sorry keep the faith -been busy
We almost succeeded last season by having all the back four -comfortable on the ball -able to control one touch- and pass and move.... Mills has never been or even purports to be other than an up and down defender who believes -if you clear the ball they won't score... to me he was Hobbs plus a bit of experience- so I always rated him accordingly and felt it was a departure from last seasons success ethic. To me Mee plus Tunchev on the bench was preferred

This is why a forum is great. I personally feel Mills is a premiership quality centreback and my everyon mates agree with what they've seen of him.

I also think Bamba is an absolute liability and one of the reasons we're conceding too many.

But that'd where we differ in opinion John, you want footballing centrebacks from the school of Barcelona, and I want defenders that are no nonsense and won't et bullied in the championship. I'm more Nigel Pearson than Sven.

I don't feel we can get out of this division playing pretty football unless we can convince good prem players to step down and not even Sven managed that (look at Naughton at an average prem team).

Let's see what tact the new manager takes, because at the end of the day, that's all that counts.

to be honest Mersey -I can live with Mills and he is not the reason that we are doing so badly -BUT given the choice to buy Mills or Naughton -its Naughton every time because he would contribute massively to our ability to counterattack -and its my information we could have got him at the end of last season with a 6m bid

Its the total trade off to artesans -not artists that worry me - Peltier and Konchesky plus Mills = low on ball retention and movement

I don't agree with this notion that to get out of the Championship you have to play long ball football. Swansea played wonderful football last season and got promotion and Norwich pass the ball around quite well as well.

I think with Bamba & Mills, you get the no nonsense - footballing combination which is a good one to have. If you look at Bamba, he hasn't really been punished for playing out from the back in that it hasn't led to the concession of any goals. If we're going to pass out from the back then people like Bamba are good to have because they will start our attacks when teams come and put 10 behind the ball so if they can bring bring the ball out and give us an extra man in midfield then that will help us to break them down.

Joby is right that Sol has all the talents to be a top centre-back and he just needs to play consistently at his best. If he did that, he'd be playing in the Premier League no doubt and this season, he is starting to find that consistency. I don't think it's a bad thing that we have a centre-half who is also technically good as well as long as he is smart about when to play from the back and when to play the percentages and again he is improving with that.

As I said before, I think Mills and Bamba are good as a pair (and they were showing that before Matt's suspension) because you get the best of both world's and I think they are actually both capable of playing in the Premier League. Hopefully that will be with us because it is paramount you have a good defence to get promotion and these two, when on-song, are as good as any in our division.

I'm not saying we need to play long ball stuff. I'm saying that no matter how good a footballing side you are, you've got to be up for a battle.

I agree Konchesky offers very little dynamism and don't think he was a clever signing to suit Sven's system.

I personally think the beat footballing sides in the championship are the ones that have a solid back 4 or an attack minded midfield. We seem to have neither!!

As for Naughton, if we could have got him for £6m, maybe we should, but I do think the owners need to show try cannot be held to ransom and if thy means missing out on the odd player then so bet it. Naughton or not, they invested a lot of money in the summer on a team that still lacks balance. As much as I think Sven should have been given time, you've got to question how that happened.

To be completely honest, if we had paid £6m for a fullback who is proven at nowhere above a decent championship team I would have been gob-smacked and a little embarrassed.

He is better than Peltier, but not £5m better IMO and I don't think his inclusion in the team would have made a huge amount of different to our current situation.

I am quite shocked that you think Konchesky and Peltier's movement is bad, I think Peltier has done very little wrong at all this season (could he be suffering from a perhaps unfair comparison to a player of the season performance from Naughton last year??), and with Konchesky he gets forward plenty for me, just perhaps not back quick enough.

With regard to Mills, I don't want him to have much ball retention. In fact, I'd argue if one of your CBs has a high perecentage in the ball retention charts it means there isn't enough movement in front of him. Infact I think its only the fact that he is sometimes the opposite of Bamba that makes the partnership works, and often IMO, gets Sol out of trouble.

My preference was to get Mee and Vitor which I think would have been at least equal to Mills and Bamba, if not better.

I hear bits and bobs from a relation of one of the SMT at City, from what I heard Mee's parent club did not want him to go out again to the same team and he didn't particularly argue against this (mainly because he was dropped intermittently last year, in his opinion unfairly). I also heard Naughton's preference was to any Premiership club (understandable), so this was out of our hands to a certain extent.

The loan players last year did their job but Sven was give a hard time over loan players.
This season he buys the best he can get to come to a non proven championship side... Theres the rub the best guys would not come as you say the best people are in a job so the best players are not prepared to take the risk in the drop. The list of won"t come was extensive!

The problem this season is IMO the expectation that new 50% of the workforce to become a fully fledged team by the 10th game.

As for Best managers are in work yes and no given that all managers get fired some will be good enough.

The only criteria i want is a manager who has got a team promoted from this division.