It seems many people are in need of some education because they don't know what they are talking about.
Here goes:
Racism: The belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races.
Racist: someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly.
Racial: Connected with someone's race.
Discrimination: treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, religion, gender, etc.
So the use of abusive language which involves a racial term, (a term connected to someone's race) is called racial abuse not racism.
For this to be an act of racism the abuser would have to infer that they believed the abused person's ethnicity made them inferior. So saying “you effing n***er is not racism but saying “you can’t play in goal because black people are useless in goal" would be an act of racism.
A person who uses racial abuse can not be deemed to be racist, in order to be racist the person has to be known to hold the belief that others are inferior due to their race.
Racial abuse is not an act of discrimination either. To be discrimination the person would have to be shown to only abuse people of other ethnicities.
So, a racist person is someone who beholds the beliefs of racism, the belief that others are inferior because of their race, and then racial discrimination may follow such as unequal treatment of others; unequal opportunities granted, unequal care given, unequal attention and consideration given, unequal judgements made etc. based upon race and/or ethnicity.
So a racist may be nasty to people of another race, may abuse them and use racially motivated language and treat them in a manner that is not the same as he treats others, however the reverse can not be assumed! It can not be assumed that someone who has used racial abuse is racist or treats people discriminately!!!
Hope we're clear now!!!
An Education
posted on 18/11/11
I agree with the OP.
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Oh no you don't. Please Billy, after everything you've written on this subject, you can't possibly agree with the OP.
For the OP's reasoning is not that interpretation of words uttered out of the mouths of individuals renders anything racist or not. The OP's reasoning is something completely different than that.
And I'm utterly shocked that you, after reading all your input into this topic, would write what you have just done.
Smiley needed - head on hands, total shock, disbelief smiley.
posted on 18/11/11
Ripleys Cat
Yeah you're right.
I should have qualified my comment a bit better, I should have said that I agree with the OP in that there is a complete misunderstanding by some people on this topic.
I do not believe that simply uttering a racially abusive comment makes somebody a racist, that is what some people are suggesting.
My mate called me a black **** once when we were having a bit of an argument, I am mixed-race by the way, afterwards he apologised and did not want me to think he was a racist, he is not...and I did not think he was!
posted on 18/11/11
I know you may find it difficult to believe that somebody would be irritated by me, that was years ago when I was opinionated!
posted on 18/11/11
I should have said that I agree with the OP in that there is a complete misunderstanding by some people on this topic.
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Phew, thank god for that!!!!
Billy, for what it's worth, you've taken a lot of flak for your comments on this issue, but in my mind you've made some of the best comments that I've read on the whole thing.
That others can't separate your comments on this issue with any agenda they may have with you in the past, well that's their problem. Not yours.
posted on 18/11/11
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/11/11
In the OP's defence, there are a lot of people who misconstrue what the meaning of racism actually is.
However, I agree with you Rooney Rocket. With pretty much everything you wrote
posted on 18/11/11
RipleysCat
Thank goodness for that! I read your initial post with horror and realised my mistake, thanks for pointing it out!
As for the United fans who cannot separate my comments from my obvious 'anti-United' stance then that is expected. I am glad that this thread, which I enjoy, is mostly devoid of the usual nonsense that accompany my comments.
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Rooney's rocket
I have amended my comment on agreeing with the OP in my last post, it was badly worded and was not intended in the way that it has been interpreted....<climb-down smiley>!
posted on 21/11/11
I appreciate your replies and input. I do of course appreciate that a racial slur can be a manifestation of racism, all I want to get across is that it's not necessarily so. The problem we have is if people interchange the terms they use thinking it doesn't matter, thinking they all basically mean the same thing, then the message can be distorted, misconstrude and lost.
I feel it necessary to use the correct terminology so as to clearly identify what is being argued.
I can't understand why Kick It Out describe racial abuse as discrimination, this would suggest that the person would not have been abused if they had not been of a different ethnicity to the abuser, and although that may be possible I doubt it is so likely!
posted on 21/11/11
I can't understand why Kick It Out describe racial abuse as discrimination, this would suggest that the person would not have been abused if they had not been of a different ethnicity to the abuser, and although that may be possible I doubt it is so likely!
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Sorry Lambsy, but some/most/all racist/racialsts, call them what you like, insult/abuse/discriminate against, call it what you like, people who are not the same colour/ethenticity as themselves solely because they are not the same colour/ethenticity as themselves, and for no other reason. And by doing so they are breaking the law of the land. Not many non racist/racialists would feel the need to insult somebody by bringing skin colour into the argument. If you do yourself or claim that it isnt a problem bringing skin colour into your argument, but claim to be a non racist/racialist, then in my book, you should take a look at yourself. This is my opinion. I am not claiming to be educating anybody about the situation, I have not academic qualifications or certificates in this area. It's just how I feel and I don't think it is in line with your thoughts on this matter. That's all.
But a good debate.
posted on 21/11/11
Whiteside, I personally believe, for the most part, racial slurs are used because it is known they will be hurtful, the abuser will use whatever term applies best for greatest effect, the term used will be dependant upon the target; race, sexuality, nationality, gender etc.
So I don't think they abuse black people because they are black or because they believe them to be inferior or wish to treat them in a discriminatory manner, (certainly not on the football pitch anyway) rather they use a racial slur because it's what will hurt that black person the most, therefore this would not be discrimination or racism, it would be racial abuse, which still is unacceptable, but then I believe all abuse should be unacceptable!