Excellent post SDS.

I saw the video and felt quite uneasy when he said that. Some yank telling us to be part of the family. Who TF does he think he is. He is not family cos family won't sell each other to the highest bidder like they will.

SDS, I once asked a similar series of questions, culminating in the feeling that fans like me are now the most unwelcome at games.

Sadly, for people like myself, and maybe yourself, football is not about 'football' itself anymore. It's about making money and exploiting all avenues, emptying all wallets. No longer is it (if it ever was) about a tribe or a community.

The target audience is the family. The ones that will turn up in droves, parents and kids in replica kits, an hour before kick off, buy a hot dog meal and a couple of pints and programmes, not cause any trouble or make any noise, then b*gger off back home after, perhaps having stopped in the club shop on the way out!

Me however, and you too, roll up after a few about 5-10mins before kick-off.. refuse to buy overpriced beer, food, programmes, merchandise etc, make a load of noise, swear sing and shout, then b*gger off into town to get more beer!

Mostyn, sadly and in spite of the fact that I fall well and truly into your definition of family, I agree with you. There is no place anymore for the supporters who might have sat in the c stand or stood on the pop side. Maybe, with some clever leadership from the likes if you and sds, the club could set an area aside for (in the nicest possible way) the more traditional supporters?

I was

Phew, Im very pleased with that as a first comment , even if noone else can relate to this, Ive got some support!

Mostyn

Some fair comments there, but Im not saying I do not appreciate that familes, young children, the elderly do not play a part in creating a passionate atmosphere and could "potentially". Of course, we all want to share in the philosphy that everyone is entitled to follow the Rams, I just think EVEN those types of Fans would benefit from the ability to create that passionate atmosphere. Sooner or later the only generations of Fans left will think that the way it is now is the only way, and not even appreciate that it DOES NOT work.

Nick Webster, my mate, carries that huge flag everywhere... He's been trying all-sorts to improve the atmosphere. He's tried the singing area in the North Stand, then the South Stand corner, and now has tried petitioning the club to get behind the goal. BUT, whilst people moan about it, nobody will give up their current seat and move. Fathers still want their children next to them (whereas on the terraces, kids to the front) and generally more than anything, the songs that the idiots at the back try to sing are cringeworthy!

So whilst I'm in the mood for singing, and I doubt I'm the only one, there are certain songs I refuse to sing along to.

"the club could set an area aside for (in the nicest possible way) the more traditional supporters?"

Peeder

Thats got alot to do with the point Im trying to make mate. One area of the stadium is not gonna change anything. The only thing that will is a collective willingness from ALL. Thats Young, Old, Make, Female. Lock, stock the bl00dy lot!

If we're talking about the video, then frankly (I've just watched it), I just found it harmless cheesy, vaguely cringey marketing.

I renewed before Feb 29th (without seeing the video).

I just did

Nothing more to it.

No, SDS, I don't consider you to be outside of the 'family' - I find it slightly sad that you feel the need to stay away as you obviously bleed black 'n' white and care very much about DCFC as an entity.

I'll be back in 2012-13, I don't have to be, but I am - if I ever see the need not to renew - I won't.

Simple.

UTR.

*male*

Good post SDS two things I take from it are the atmoshpere at PP is 5hite and football ain't what it used to be:

Re. the atmoshpere I feel like depsite a more succesful team than last year, there's not a great deal to get us excited about at Derby, the kids coming through are interesting but don't get the blood pumping like a Kinkladze run, Stimac shimmy out of defence, Asanovic free kick, even a Commons run or Bueno pass, we are functional, tied into fair play which I agree with in the long term, but in the medium term it's mediocre football and no sign of any player coming in that can afford to change that quickly. I think having listened to Clough's comments we're looking at playing more attractive football, but everytime we have tried that this season the team have struggled with any kind of off the ball movement, creativity or flair and ended up reverting to outworking the opposition. Without a midfielder that can mix physicality, positioning, stamina and playmaking ability (which usually = 1.5 mill and up or injury prone or old or all 3) I can't see barring a James Bailey revelation or a hard pre season's training in pass and move this changing next season. I feel a lot of fans feel the same and whilst we're inching towards stability and I prefer it to boom and bust it's pretty f-ing boring.

As regards to the old days, now that I have family it has changed a bit, but I do miss the alpha male "I've worked my backside off all week now let's unwind by getting hammered, shouting like a gob5hite and getting in touch with my repressed inner hooligan", untiI I have to go back to my employment prison on Monday.

My solutions are

a) GSE try and find a little investment to get a quality all round midfielder in or get a good bargain - Perkins Barnsley maybe

b) adopt the Milf proposal of moving the SE corner S as an interim for

c) submit an application to the FA for an all standing EAST stand see Borussia Dortmund.

The East stand could be cheap standing room only and the Toyota stand could be a little less Bougie and more family friendly.

d) Instead of the useless PA maybe a few local indie bands, DJ's, that can whip the crowd up with some pre match entertainment a 10/15 minute set.

For those that want the rough and tumble there's the East stand for those that want something a bit more child friendly there's the West. the money made from increased capacity can go to reducing the costs of seating for struggling parents wanting to bring their children up on the torturous but rewarding diet of Derby County.

Viewfrom

Applaud what you're saying Mate, to an extent. I not gonna accuse you of anything because I know you are diehard, but I think your comments smack a little of apathy, in that despite whatever product is put in front of you, you will be there week in week out.

I wonder how much more your 'young un' would enjoy Matchday if for 10-15 minutes before a Match she was bouncing up and down with the rest of the stadium and roaring her team out of the tunnel. Might even save you a few quid into the bargain. Its human nature as far as Im concerned that the adrenalin rush of being part of that cannot be matched, not even by a Big Mac and a carton of coke. All that would be needed is to experience it once, and the addiction would be there. When you consider how harmful some modern day addictions can be, I think it could only produce positive feelings. And THATS what Id consider a "family" to be. All pulling together and all for one cause.

Even 666 is part of the family.

"For those that want the rough and tumble there's the East stand for those that want something a bit more child friendly there's the West."

Frick me 2W, how do I respond to all that ? I think the above comment smacks somewhat of seperation. Just wanna make this clear, I am not asking for us to go back to days when the "alpha male" dominates. We can all let out our stresses and pent up emotion without the need to offend and encroach on others comfort levels.

I agree with you SDS, just turn the speakers off and lets go from there.

SDS, think back to when the family enclosure was opened at the BBG. I was old enough to stand on the pop side but my younger cousin would nit have been allowed to go except in the family enclosure. Now, he and his lad are season ticket holders. But neither they hit me and my 2 lads want to go to a game and have to put up with the language etc that will come from, to use others words, alpha males letting off steam. So, whilst I totally agree that you should be allowed to support like we used to, and like I might also want to on occasion, I don't agree that it should be to the detriment of family supporters who are, if we're honest, the future of the club. There needs to be a place for everyone.

Fair comment SDS but how much is of this is bourne of YOU and NOT what other fans perceive.

I DO have a life outside of DCFC and when I remember back to the 80s and the 3rd Division and Maxwell and the stink of the toilets and the heavy handed approach of crowd control along with the scars from opposing fans (Chelsea and Leeds since you ask) just above my eyes...........well ...I get all misty eyed.

Please don't suggest it's apathy - it is what it is - it's what I want to do and yes there are problems I will try to change it from within.

Great points Peeder, and you have just justified the whole point of writing this article. Im 39, and still consider myself to be the future of the club, but I am not in your position as I do not have children. So your comments give me more valuble insight into our collective mindset.

I remember the Keyclub very well from the BBG days, although I never took a place there. I prefered the hustle and bustle of the Popside. From the age of six I was subject to the "alpha males letting off steam", yet it didn't affect my appreciation of other Fans personal space and comfort levels. Which leads to me to believe that maybe the fact that we are all seated has a far reaching effect on our behaviour. Individuals and their behaviour stand out now, but isnt that why we have the Ground regulations and Stewards. You know, to remind people that they may be upsetting or making others uncomfortable.

I was always under the impression that the North Stand was a hybrid of the Keyclub Family area, and as such the South East Corner has always been pretty much allowed to run itself, but that doesnt seem to spread along the East Stand or around to the South West corner (I held a ST in SW corner for 5 years).

So having taken into account what your points are Id now like to ask how you feel the atmosphere could be improved to have everyone involved with passion with areas in thr ground set out for types?

Iwas is spot on, I think, when he says that the first requirement is to switch off that tannoy! Allow Rams Fans to make their own entertainment, talk amongst themselves, anticipate the match and build up their own atmosphere. I would bet that if we took all of the other distractions presented to us pre kick off, that the passion buried within EVERY Ram would produce exactly the kind of cauldron we some of us miss, and others have yet to experience.

" An outsider, looking in from the outside and pressing me grubby nose up against the living room window. "

did you lick the glass and make tulisa type gestures to the people on the inside ?

SDS fair point; maybe I was sounding a bit divisive, I was raised on football in the Key Club at the BBG and despite asking my Dad what the D-L-F chant was I was pretty much sheltered from some of the more alpha male-isms going on. I think it is fine to have different sections, I don't think a standing room east stand should be exclusively for the hardcore but there is a spectrum of fans ranging from polite clapping to self-immolating nutters. Personally if I'm going on my own I'd like to be in the SE corner screaming obscenities but if I'm going with my kids I'd want something a little quieter. Maybe you could look at two smaller standing sections to spread it out a bit more, it's a tough one though you don't want to segregate but you want passion.

"Fair comment SDS but how much is of this is bourne of YOU and NOT what other fans perceive."

Fantastic question Viewfrom, and easy to answer. Thats exactly why I have written this article, because I want to know.....

1) How happy other Fans are with the Matchday experience?

2) If they are not happy, how they think it could be improved upon?

I apologise if my writing didnt make that clear, but that is the general crux of it. I also hope I did not offend with my comment on "apathy", but without an appreciation of your ideals face to face, sometimes text makes it difficult to judge.

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Excellent article SDS. I have doubted whether i should buy a season ticket with my lad next season. But at the end of the day...i will. Im not too bothered about "match day experiance" as when i was a very young boy i had to be in the OSSIE END at 1.30 with my stool to be at the front!!! So match day experiance will always be what you want it to be. GSE are running the club properly...but they failed to do that when they took over and went for broke...fail!!!! Nigel Clough deserves a better hand than he is being given....clean up the mess from the last few managers and keep this garden tidy...well hes cleaned up the mess...the garden is tidy...what next GSE????....again top article SDS.

North Stand is not a soft option. I think this is where the popside take their kids. Lots of aggressive swearing where I am. And I'm all for it but the kids are too young yet. But I have uttered the odd expletive recently and the older they get the bluer the air will be.

Thought-provoking SDS, and I agree with what you say. I detest, not just at the footy but in all walks of life, having somebody dictate to me how I should enjoy myself, this farcical whipping-up of atmosphere, the obligatory fanfares and fireworks.

But when the game starts, when the game starts...it's still the same magic for me, I can't help it. Maybe when we are looking back we tend to remember the Benfica and Chelsea games and not the mind-numbing nil-nils where nothing happened and there was nothing remotely resembling atmosphere.

Many years I stood in the kids corner at the BBG, and I hardly ever saw a goal go in, surrounded as I was by bigger kids. Older, I was crushed like many of the rest of you in the Popside or Ossie End, and couldn't wish for anything else. But we wouldn't tolerate that now. We are used to comfort, we whinge if there is restricted view, or if the tellies in the concourse don't work.

I fear we are stuck with it, yeah if I could I would blow up the tannoy, but even though much of what surrounds the game is now pure plastic, when the whistle blows it's as it ever was for me. And swearing isn't big or clever, by the way.

FeckoffVidal.

I wouldn't mind the telly not working if there wasn't one in the first place.

I agree with you about it all being the same when it kicks off but why the bolox beforehand?

As Mostyn so rightly says its to keep you buying and keep the alphas away.