Would people include Jonah Lomu?
He was a fantastic player whose career was tragically cut short, and we can only hope he gets well soon, but personally speaking I would not include him. The reason for this is that whilst he probably would have gone on to show he was an all time great, he didn't - due to illness, and my belief would be that players should only be included when they have proved their greatness over the course of a full career.
What so you folks think?
in 1995 it was very clear that he was comfortably the most effective winger to have ever played the game. in that case there is no need for him to have had an extended career. it was obvious based on what he actually did that he was an all time great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhmQlxCDFSc
it's almost unbelievable how bad england's defence was in this game
the guy was a monster though.
Actually an interesting thing here:
Below is the official team of the decade as chosen by Rugby World Magazine:
For me this is almost the ultimate team! With the exception of Giteau! Good in patches but chould turn a game on its head by having a howler.
M Muliana (New Zealand);
J Robinson (England),
B O'Driscoll (Ireland),
M Giteau (Australia),
S Williams (Wales);
D Carter (New Zealand),
A Pichot (Argentina);
G Jenkins (Wales),
J Smit (South Africa),
C Hayman (New Zealand),
M Johnson (England, capt),
V Matfield (South Africa),
R Hill (England),
R McCaw (New Zealand),
S Parisse (Italy).
Replacements: R Roncero (Argentina), M Ledesma (Argentina), S Marconnet (France), JM Fernandez Lobbe (Argentina), F Du Preez (South Africa), J Wilkinson (England), Y Jauzion (France), JM Hernandez (Argentina).
With O'Driscoll voted the over all Player of the Decade.
that looks like the team of 2000-2010 though. that wasnt how I interprted the OP's question.
On the above. I like that MJ was chosen as captain! Because like him or not, he was a great bloody captain and i say that as an irish man! Ouchhhh
Indeed its the 00 to 10 however in the last year and 3 months i dont think anyone has appeared out of the ether to put their name in the pot
maybe not, but it might rule out some of the players you selected. i didnt 'consider' johnson and hill for example.
why not? RWC winning players? 2003, thats within a decade. Best captain i have ever seen was MJ. Hated him. But respected him immensely.
Has, Bryan Habana been mentioned?
Edin
For me Habana was good, but never a best of player. Sure he was the fastest in the world, which is also debatable, Rupeni Caucau comes to mind and Ngwenya
who burned Habana for pace in the 07 RWC.
Sometimes i thought he had butter smeared on his hands as he always seemed to have serious difficulty taking passes at pace and indeed giving passes.
If an argument about wingers is to break out, i would have a fair few names ahead of Habana and top of the list would be Doug Howlett
if Caucau could have kept his head on for more than 2 years he would potentially have been the best player EVER. The 2 years he had in super rugby he dominated as well as the 03 world cup. Extremely fast and extremely powerful. Former Blues coach sloane said that for a laugh Howlett, muliana, rockocko(?) and caucau had a 100m sprint race and despite caucau slipping at the start he still won.........enough said. Even better than Lomu perhaps. Just a shame that he struggled to adapt to life outside of fiji where he lived in a tiny village in a close knit community. he really suffered culture shock.
No ones mentioned John Eales!
liontamer
Caucau, is a disgrace. And while i see your point, and empathise somewhat. The plain fact is he is a disgrace. Sometimes there are arguments on here about wasted talent, i.e. Cipriani, Henson. But for me Caucau is the true representation of wasted talent. But while you will see alot of people in the rugby world backing Cipriani and Henson because they were silly boys and cant stay out of trouble, There are not many who will back up a drug addled A* hole like caucau who did not only disgrace himself but disgraced the game as a whole. Coming from a little village has nothing to do with it, and really should have been an advantage when it comes to "Just say no!" For his unique story of a small town boy who hit the big time and crashed, there are a hundred success stories of lads who succeeded.
i dont know what happened to the fijian winger, but your comments seem extremely harsh dingbatman. i dont know how anyone can have sufficient knowledge of the situation you described, in order to be so judgmental and so damning.
dingbatman I think if you truly understand the cultural difference the guy underwent in a matter of two years you could perhaps sympathise. He lived on an island off of fiji where a typical day involves fishing, playing sevens and sharing a 1 room house between your whole family. From what i've read and been told about caucau he was a genuinely nice bloke who just really struggled to adapt. Auckland Blues had to actually buy him a house next to eden park so he wouldn't be late for training and a few of the players took responsibilty for cooking him meals and such. the difference between henson, cips and caucau is that henson and cips are arrogant and egotistical and think they are bigger than the game itself. Caucau has never thought this and may have had issues with cannabis and difficulties with obedience but on general he is a well respected player in fiji, sevens and the game in general
Liontamer.
Sorry mate i dont agree. anyone who brings the game in to such disrepute as he has, simply has no excuse, and as i have said there are a hundred success storied to his failure, from lad who came from the same background. It was a personal thing with him, not a cultural thing. and dont sell me that BS. I have been to fiji years ago, backpacking. i stayed on the beach with those folks, and drank there crazy brew. and its a memory that will be with me forever as one of the best experiences of my life. But i am not given to excusing idiocy based on circumstance and absolutely, if what you say is true, i have even less respect because he was being babysat for so long and still failed.
The fact is if he could not handle it. Then sobeit, and a wasted talent. But probably better off back in his own environment where he felt comfortable to smoke drugs and not do a damn thing!
The main difference for him was his bad habits were publicised and i guess that was the curse of having such a great talent for rugby.
POOOR Caucau.... me ar_s_e
think you've been drinking too much kava dingbatman. How you can sympathise with likes of cips and henson who have had the opportunities handed to them since they were 16 and not caucau is beyond me. I'm not making excuses for the fact that he did drugs and failed to turn up to play for his country and I agree that he is probably the biggest waste of a talent the rugby world has ever seen. However when a rugby player falls off the rails and continues to disobey the rules I can sympathise more with a man who has been raised in poverty unaccustomed to a certain culture over spoiled egotistical 'a' holes who think they can do or say what they want. Henson got sacked from toulon because on a night out after a game he declered that he could have fooked any of the players wives and consequently got punched. Cipriani was cheering for wales when england played them at twickenham in 2010 and booed when martin johnson would come on the screen. Caucau merely enjoys a cheeky joint. But you're right, perhaps it would have been better for caucau to have never left fiji. He may not have ruined his rugby career rather his rugby career ruined him
1- Os Du Randt
2- Fizz
3- Phil Vickery
4- Martin Johnson
5- John Eales
6- Michael Jones
7- LBN Dallaglio
8- Zinzan Brooke
9- George Gregan
10- Michael Lynagh
11- Gerald Davies
12- Philippe Sella
13- BOD
14- David Campese
15- JPR / Blanco
Finally got there.
Henson got sacked from toulon because on a night out after a game he declered that he could have fooked any of the players wives and consequently got punched. Cipriani was cheering for wales when england played them at twickenham in 2010 and booed when martin johnson would come on the screen.
=====================
quality rugby behaviour.
Lion
Mate, if your going to cheapest me about drinking cava I suggest u following up with the facts. I never defended Henson is cipriani. U need to re read my post. I said some would defend them. Not me. And in my world messing with drugs is not becoming of a rugby player. You may find ways to defend it but I don't agree. Trying to wash it away or dilute the seriousness of that by sidestepping me just don't work. But I respect your opinion and certainly agree that caucau is probably the biggest wasted talent we have seen in modern times.
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Your best players of the last decade?
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posted on 3/4/12
Would people include Jonah Lomu?
He was a fantastic player whose career was tragically cut short, and we can only hope he gets well soon, but personally speaking I would not include him. The reason for this is that whilst he probably would have gone on to show he was an all time great, he didn't - due to illness, and my belief would be that players should only be included when they have proved their greatness over the course of a full career.
What so you folks think?
posted on 3/4/12
in 1995 it was very clear that he was comfortably the most effective winger to have ever played the game. in that case there is no need for him to have had an extended career. it was obvious based on what he actually did that he was an all time great.
posted on 3/4/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhmQlxCDFSc
it's almost unbelievable how bad england's defence was in this game
the guy was a monster though.
posted on 3/4/12
Actually an interesting thing here:
Below is the official team of the decade as chosen by Rugby World Magazine:
For me this is almost the ultimate team! With the exception of Giteau! Good in patches but chould turn a game on its head by having a howler.
M Muliana (New Zealand);
J Robinson (England),
B O'Driscoll (Ireland),
M Giteau (Australia),
S Williams (Wales);
D Carter (New Zealand),
A Pichot (Argentina);
G Jenkins (Wales),
J Smit (South Africa),
C Hayman (New Zealand),
M Johnson (England, capt),
V Matfield (South Africa),
R Hill (England),
R McCaw (New Zealand),
S Parisse (Italy).
Replacements: R Roncero (Argentina), M Ledesma (Argentina), S Marconnet (France), JM Fernandez Lobbe (Argentina), F Du Preez (South Africa), J Wilkinson (England), Y Jauzion (France), JM Hernandez (Argentina).
With O'Driscoll voted the over all Player of the Decade.
posted on 3/4/12
that looks like the team of 2000-2010 though. that wasnt how I interprted the OP's question.
posted on 3/4/12
On the above. I like that MJ was chosen as captain! Because like him or not, he was a great bloody captain and i say that as an irish man! Ouchhhh
posted on 3/4/12
Indeed its the 00 to 10 however in the last year and 3 months i dont think anyone has appeared out of the ether to put their name in the pot
posted on 3/4/12
maybe not, but it might rule out some of the players you selected. i didnt 'consider' johnson and hill for example.
posted on 3/4/12
why not? RWC winning players? 2003, thats within a decade. Best captain i have ever seen was MJ. Hated him. But respected him immensely.
posted on 3/4/12
Has, Bryan Habana been mentioned?
posted on 3/4/12
posted on 4/4/12
Edin
For me Habana was good, but never a best of player. Sure he was the fastest in the world, which is also debatable, Rupeni Caucau comes to mind and Ngwenya
who burned Habana for pace in the 07 RWC.
Sometimes i thought he had butter smeared on his hands as he always seemed to have serious difficulty taking passes at pace and indeed giving passes.
If an argument about wingers is to break out, i would have a fair few names ahead of Habana and top of the list would be Doug Howlett
posted on 5/4/12
if Caucau could have kept his head on for more than 2 years he would potentially have been the best player EVER. The 2 years he had in super rugby he dominated as well as the 03 world cup. Extremely fast and extremely powerful. Former Blues coach sloane said that for a laugh Howlett, muliana, rockocko(?) and caucau had a 100m sprint race and despite caucau slipping at the start he still won.........enough said. Even better than Lomu perhaps. Just a shame that he struggled to adapt to life outside of fiji where he lived in a tiny village in a close knit community. he really suffered culture shock.
posted on 5/4/12
No ones mentioned John Eales!
posted on 5/4/12
liontamer
Caucau, is a disgrace. And while i see your point, and empathise somewhat. The plain fact is he is a disgrace. Sometimes there are arguments on here about wasted talent, i.e. Cipriani, Henson. But for me Caucau is the true representation of wasted talent. But while you will see alot of people in the rugby world backing Cipriani and Henson because they were silly boys and cant stay out of trouble, There are not many who will back up a drug addled A* hole like caucau who did not only disgrace himself but disgraced the game as a whole. Coming from a little village has nothing to do with it, and really should have been an advantage when it comes to "Just say no!" For his unique story of a small town boy who hit the big time and crashed, there are a hundred success stories of lads who succeeded.
posted on 5/4/12
i dont know what happened to the fijian winger, but your comments seem extremely harsh dingbatman. i dont know how anyone can have sufficient knowledge of the situation you described, in order to be so judgmental and so damning.
posted on 6/4/12
dingbatman I think if you truly understand the cultural difference the guy underwent in a matter of two years you could perhaps sympathise. He lived on an island off of fiji where a typical day involves fishing, playing sevens and sharing a 1 room house between your whole family. From what i've read and been told about caucau he was a genuinely nice bloke who just really struggled to adapt. Auckland Blues had to actually buy him a house next to eden park so he wouldn't be late for training and a few of the players took responsibilty for cooking him meals and such. the difference between henson, cips and caucau is that henson and cips are arrogant and egotistical and think they are bigger than the game itself. Caucau has never thought this and may have had issues with cannabis and difficulties with obedience but on general he is a well respected player in fiji, sevens and the game in general
posted on 6/4/12
Liontamer.
Sorry mate i dont agree. anyone who brings the game in to such disrepute as he has, simply has no excuse, and as i have said there are a hundred success storied to his failure, from lad who came from the same background. It was a personal thing with him, not a cultural thing. and dont sell me that BS. I have been to fiji years ago, backpacking. i stayed on the beach with those folks, and drank there crazy brew. and its a memory that will be with me forever as one of the best experiences of my life. But i am not given to excusing idiocy based on circumstance and absolutely, if what you say is true, i have even less respect because he was being babysat for so long and still failed.
The fact is if he could not handle it. Then sobeit, and a wasted talent. But probably better off back in his own environment where he felt comfortable to smoke drugs and not do a damn thing!
The main difference for him was his bad habits were publicised and i guess that was the curse of having such a great talent for rugby.
POOOR Caucau.... me ar_s_e
posted on 6/4/12
think you've been drinking too much kava dingbatman. How you can sympathise with likes of cips and henson who have had the opportunities handed to them since they were 16 and not caucau is beyond me. I'm not making excuses for the fact that he did drugs and failed to turn up to play for his country and I agree that he is probably the biggest waste of a talent the rugby world has ever seen. However when a rugby player falls off the rails and continues to disobey the rules I can sympathise more with a man who has been raised in poverty unaccustomed to a certain culture over spoiled egotistical 'a' holes who think they can do or say what they want. Henson got sacked from toulon because on a night out after a game he declered that he could have fooked any of the players wives and consequently got punched. Cipriani was cheering for wales when england played them at twickenham in 2010 and booed when martin johnson would come on the screen. Caucau merely enjoys a cheeky joint. But you're right, perhaps it would have been better for caucau to have never left fiji. He may not have ruined his rugby career rather his rugby career ruined him
posted on 6/4/12
1- Os Du Randt
2- Fizz
3- Phil Vickery
4- Martin Johnson
5- John Eales
6- Michael Jones
7- LBN Dallaglio
8- Zinzan Brooke
9- George Gregan
10- Michael Lynagh
11- Gerald Davies
12- Philippe Sella
13- BOD
14- David Campese
15- JPR / Blanco
Finally got there.
posted on 6/4/12
Henson got sacked from toulon because on a night out after a game he declered that he could have fooked any of the players wives and consequently got punched. Cipriani was cheering for wales when england played them at twickenham in 2010 and booed when martin johnson would come on the screen.
=====================
quality rugby behaviour.
posted on 8/4/12
Lion
Mate, if your going to cheapest me about drinking cava I suggest u following up with the facts. I never defended Henson is cipriani. U need to re read my post. I said some would defend them. Not me. And in my world messing with drugs is not becoming of a rugby player. You may find ways to defend it but I don't agree. Trying to wash it away or dilute the seriousness of that by sidestepping me just don't work. But I respect your opinion and certainly agree that caucau is probably the biggest wasted talent we have seen in modern times.
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