It seems as though Kean has decided on his best eleven and doesn't think any of our reserve players have anything else to offer. I remain sceptical as to whether our current eleven is actually our best eleven.
Gamst, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, it's a matter of 'who knows'.
The trouble is that if he'd made a change after 70 minutes and United scored we may well be asking why he changed it. I suppose the longer it goes the harder it is to decide to change it.
Hindsight is blummin easy! It does raise questions though, does he not believe in the squad, is he brave enough etc.
Also, Big Sam would've 'thrown' this game and we'd have six or seven fresh players for an easier weekend encounter. Many fans didn't like the approach but it certainly had its merits...
We are now trying to stay up with a squad of 12!!!
Rumour has it that we have a matchday player budget to operate to, hence few subs now, as appearance fees are being avoided.
It does not really add up however, as why would we sign these players if so? And how much are we avoiding by not playing them? It will be thousands, not millions which pales into insignificance compared to the money lost if going down.
But when things fail to make sense, often the most ridiculous suggestions have merit as NOTHING ELSE MAKES SENSE!
Also, Big Sam would've 'thrown' this game and we'd have six or seven fresh players for an easier weekend encounter. Many fans didn't like the approach but it certainly had its merits...""
Not sure about that Pie. Home games are vital in the PL and I cannot remember throwing any under Allardyce.
I'm not sure it was tiredness. We were looking solid and I don't remember any real heart in mouth moments in the second half. We were outdone by an act of desperation, Valencia got fed up of sending in regular crosses (which we kept dealing with comfortably) and just resorted to smashing a hopeful ball across goal.
A match day budget to keep to? It sounds completely ludicrous but, with the owners we have, the more ludicrous the suggestion, the more likely it is to be true.
OOJW - thrown might be too strong a word for it but when faced with the big 4 (as was) he often rested key players. His record at top sides wasn't always great but he reaped the benefit elsewhere.
I'm sure there was a Sam stat that he never lost 3 PL games on the bounce. Whereas Kean has us fighting hard for a point at Anfield or a win at OT but then we hand 6 points to Bolton...
Pie I am not arguing we were selective many times under SA. But always away from home, from memory.
He normally looked at the home games as a point scoring opportunity and set the team up accordingly.
I was looking through our home fixture list the other day and decided to add up all the points we gained from our actual home wins added to the games we really should be winning at home. If we'd won the games I expected us to win, we'd have 20 points more than we do at this stage, meaning we'd be well on track for a mid-table finish.
Yeah our home form has been nothing short of disastrous! I think we have gained more points away than we normally do, but at home we have struggled badly.
" I know what you are saying but United were comparatively poor compared to other years."
Yes, they have got weaknesses. They've swung between the extremes of beating Arsenal 8-1 and losing 6-1 to City. They've been knocked out of Europe. They still rely on Scholes and Giggs.
Nevertheless, they've still got a big squad of talented players. They've won ten out their last eleven league games - losing to them is no disgrace. And if United have declined but stand five points clear at the top of the table, what does this say about the other big - and big-spending - clubs?
"They've been knocked out of Europe."
They have been knocked out of the CC. the FA Cup, the CL and the Europa league. Hardly a great United team is it?
Bu they are bigger and better than us I agree. But this does not guarantee them a win, as highlighted by our results over the years against them, including the recent away win.
United were relatively poor on the day. One dimensional, lacking the creativity and guile centrally to break us down, lacking an effective target man, susceptible to fast counter attacks, lacking balance with Rooney out left, etc.
A better team than us would have beaten them that day.
Well I'll start by naming Vukcevic and Salgado (Michel could've maybe gone into a DM position), admittedly he could've done without Givet being out and Goodwillie's court case. Add to this the experience he got rid of in January in the shape of Roberts, Andrews etc. and you realise why his bench is utter carp.
++++++++++++
Only Vukcevic and Goodwillie was available to him i'm not sure i would say they are very good players at his disposal
What?! Vukcevic is a fantastic player! It's a travesty that he isn't even getting on the subs bench at the moment.
If he was that good why was only Rovers from Premiar league after him then.It's amazing how a player gets better without playing
That is silly logic, really. There have been plenty of players that have come to a smaller club under the radar with no one else interested and done fantastically well. In every single game Vukcevic has played for us he has looked very sharp and dangerous and I firmly believe he would be our best player if given regular game time.
We will have to agree to not to agree cos i think he is over rated and Kean must agrees with me erm don't like the sound of that ..
Yep I must be watching a different Vukcevic SKA, the only times I've seen him play well have been for his national team. He may be a decent player but there are plenty of decent players out there who come to the PL and just can't cut it. In a Rovers shirt he usually looks slow, lacking in effort and generally ineffective to me.
I can only recall Vukcevic playing a couple of games. He looked sharp and scored against Sunderland and then disappeared back into the wilderness for reasons unknown.
@Pie....
I see where you're coming from to an extent with 'who knows' however, subs should've been used.
That's not hindsight, I was stewing during the game, for me, it's common sense.
Anyway, onwards and hopefully upwards eh!
(And I would do some pretty undignified things to have Sam back atm)
Well I'm with SKA here - Vuckevic has looked capable and more complete than our other players played as midfielders (Formica, Rochina, Petrovic). He may be no world beater but it is indeed ridiculous that he can't make our bench ahead of Petrovic who has been more poo than him.
And with b&whs here - we were actually defending ok until the goal (which was pretty special). I firmly believe that Kean's substitutions cost us the win at Norwich and I do think that was in his mind. Its tough to pickt he players to move to bring a more defensive player on (The Yak is always a goal threat with two touches, Hoillet is an outlet - maybe Pedersen/Marcus but then centre mid is a difficult position to interfere with (Marcus you would bring on Petrovic and push Pedersen left) so difficult to do without disrupting the balance of the team).
However Kean gets paid to make all of these calls and so far he has not made enough of them properly.
the goal was not special, it was a percentage smash across the face of goal born out of frustration.
agree we defended well, didn't feel like we were riding our luck at any time.
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Substitutions/General Management
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posted on 4/4/12
It seems as though Kean has decided on his best eleven and doesn't think any of our reserve players have anything else to offer. I remain sceptical as to whether our current eleven is actually our best eleven.
posted on 4/4/12
Gamst, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, it's a matter of 'who knows'.
The trouble is that if he'd made a change after 70 minutes and United scored we may well be asking why he changed it. I suppose the longer it goes the harder it is to decide to change it.
Hindsight is blummin easy! It does raise questions though, does he not believe in the squad, is he brave enough etc.
Also, Big Sam would've 'thrown' this game and we'd have six or seven fresh players for an easier weekend encounter. Many fans didn't like the approach but it certainly had its merits...
posted on 4/4/12
We are now trying to stay up with a squad of 12!!!
Rumour has it that we have a matchday player budget to operate to, hence few subs now, as appearance fees are being avoided.
It does not really add up however, as why would we sign these players if so? And how much are we avoiding by not playing them? It will be thousands, not millions which pales into insignificance compared to the money lost if going down.
But when things fail to make sense, often the most ridiculous suggestions have merit as NOTHING ELSE MAKES SENSE!
posted on 4/4/12
Also, Big Sam would've 'thrown' this game and we'd have six or seven fresh players for an easier weekend encounter. Many fans didn't like the approach but it certainly had its merits...""
Not sure about that Pie. Home games are vital in the PL and I cannot remember throwing any under Allardyce.
posted on 4/4/12
I'm not sure it was tiredness. We were looking solid and I don't remember any real heart in mouth moments in the second half. We were outdone by an act of desperation, Valencia got fed up of sending in regular crosses (which we kept dealing with comfortably) and just resorted to smashing a hopeful ball across goal.
posted on 4/4/12
A match day budget to keep to? It sounds completely ludicrous but, with the owners we have, the more ludicrous the suggestion, the more likely it is to be true.
posted on 4/4/12
OOJW - thrown might be too strong a word for it but when faced with the big 4 (as was) he often rested key players. His record at top sides wasn't always great but he reaped the benefit elsewhere.
I'm sure there was a Sam stat that he never lost 3 PL games on the bounce. Whereas Kean has us fighting hard for a point at Anfield or a win at OT but then we hand 6 points to Bolton...
posted on 4/4/12
Pie I am not arguing we were selective many times under SA. But always away from home, from memory.
He normally looked at the home games as a point scoring opportunity and set the team up accordingly.
posted on 4/4/12
I was looking through our home fixture list the other day and decided to add up all the points we gained from our actual home wins added to the games we really should be winning at home. If we'd won the games I expected us to win, we'd have 20 points more than we do at this stage, meaning we'd be well on track for a mid-table finish.
posted on 4/4/12
Yeah our home form has been nothing short of disastrous! I think we have gained more points away than we normally do, but at home we have struggled badly.
posted on 4/4/12
" I know what you are saying but United were comparatively poor compared to other years."
Yes, they have got weaknesses. They've swung between the extremes of beating Arsenal 8-1 and losing 6-1 to City. They've been knocked out of Europe. They still rely on Scholes and Giggs.
Nevertheless, they've still got a big squad of talented players. They've won ten out their last eleven league games - losing to them is no disgrace. And if United have declined but stand five points clear at the top of the table, what does this say about the other big - and big-spending - clubs?
posted on 4/4/12
"They've been knocked out of Europe."
They have been knocked out of the CC. the FA Cup, the CL and the Europa league. Hardly a great United team is it?
Bu they are bigger and better than us I agree. But this does not guarantee them a win, as highlighted by our results over the years against them, including the recent away win.
United were relatively poor on the day. One dimensional, lacking the creativity and guile centrally to break us down, lacking an effective target man, susceptible to fast counter attacks, lacking balance with Rooney out left, etc.
A better team than us would have beaten them that day.
posted on 4/4/12
Well I'll start by naming Vukcevic and Salgado (Michel could've maybe gone into a DM position), admittedly he could've done without Givet being out and Goodwillie's court case. Add to this the experience he got rid of in January in the shape of Roberts, Andrews etc. and you realise why his bench is utter carp.
++++++++++++
Only Vukcevic and Goodwillie was available to him i'm not sure i would say they are very good players at his disposal
posted on 4/4/12
What?! Vukcevic is a fantastic player! It's a travesty that he isn't even getting on the subs bench at the moment.
posted on 4/4/12
If he was that good why was only Rovers from Premiar league after him then.It's amazing how a player gets better without playing
posted on 4/4/12
That is silly logic, really. There have been plenty of players that have come to a smaller club under the radar with no one else interested and done fantastically well. In every single game Vukcevic has played for us he has looked very sharp and dangerous and I firmly believe he would be our best player if given regular game time.
posted on 4/4/12
We will have to agree to not to agree cos i think he is over rated and Kean must agrees with me erm don't like the sound of that ..
posted on 5/4/12
Yep I must be watching a different Vukcevic SKA, the only times I've seen him play well have been for his national team. He may be a decent player but there are plenty of decent players out there who come to the PL and just can't cut it. In a Rovers shirt he usually looks slow, lacking in effort and generally ineffective to me.
posted on 5/4/12
I can only recall Vukcevic playing a couple of games. He looked sharp and scored against Sunderland and then disappeared back into the wilderness for reasons unknown.
posted on 5/4/12
@Pie....
I see where you're coming from to an extent with 'who knows' however, subs should've been used.
That's not hindsight, I was stewing during the game, for me, it's common sense.
Anyway, onwards and hopefully upwards eh!
(And I would do some pretty undignified things to have Sam back atm)
posted on 5/4/12
Well I'm with SKA here - Vuckevic has looked capable and more complete than our other players played as midfielders (Formica, Rochina, Petrovic). He may be no world beater but it is indeed ridiculous that he can't make our bench ahead of Petrovic who has been more poo than him.
And with b&whs here - we were actually defending ok until the goal (which was pretty special). I firmly believe that Kean's substitutions cost us the win at Norwich and I do think that was in his mind. Its tough to pickt he players to move to bring a more defensive player on (The Yak is always a goal threat with two touches, Hoillet is an outlet - maybe Pedersen/Marcus but then centre mid is a difficult position to interfere with (Marcus you would bring on Petrovic and push Pedersen left) so difficult to do without disrupting the balance of the team).
However Kean gets paid to make all of these calls and so far he has not made enough of them properly.
posted on 5/4/12
the goal was not special, it was a percentage smash across the face of goal born out of frustration.
agree we defended well, didn't feel like we were riding our luck at any time.
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